I have never driven an e9. I want to know what everyone's opinion is on how they drive. I have a well sorted bone stock 88' 325is to compare it to. My e9 is being restored with a getrag 265, fresh m90, csi intake, megasquirt with coilovers(undecided on rates and type) chassis will have subtle strengthening. Any inputs and comparisons would be appreciated.
E9 driving feel
- Thread starter Bejoe16
- Start date
the ride is very diierent for each car as we all modify them to some extent
but with mine it tracks like a low slung ferrari or really tight prelude
in other words they are super stable in feeling and balance as most are lowered
aslo its smooth like a cadillac
but mine has power like a rocket.
its al in all extremely comfortable and dead on the road feeling/.
the 5 spped makes a ton of difference on the freewats as it just purrs along wanting to just gooooo.
but with mine it tracks like a low slung ferrari or really tight prelude
in other words they are super stable in feeling and balance as most are lowered
aslo its smooth like a cadillac
but mine has power like a rocket.
its al in all extremely comfortable and dead on the road feeling/.
the 5 spped makes a ton of difference on the freewats as it just purrs along wanting to just gooooo.
I'm sure my experience is spot on with the rest of the group:
Mine pulls very hard to the left when breaking, as the calipers need rebuilding and the brake lines are on the verge of failure. The gas pedal is a little spongy because the floorboard is rusted through near the pedal pivot point. If you floor it, the Weber linkages will overlock in WOT and you have to put it in Neutral and pry the throttle back with your foot. It doesn't corner well because the tires are 20 years old, with visible canyons in the sidewalls.
Funny timing. As I type this, I am updating my employers voluntary life coverage. Why does my wife keep encouraging me to take spirited drives around the neighborhood?
Mine pulls very hard to the left when breaking, as the calipers need rebuilding and the brake lines are on the verge of failure. The gas pedal is a little spongy because the floorboard is rusted through near the pedal pivot point. If you floor it, the Weber linkages will overlock in WOT and you have to put it in Neutral and pry the throttle back with your foot. It doesn't corner well because the tires are 20 years old, with visible canyons in the sidewalls.
Funny timing. As I type this, I am updating my employers voluntary life coverage. Why does my wife keep encouraging me to take spirited drives around the neighborhood?
i don't think i would ever compare an e9 to a modern car. don't get me wrong, i love it for what it is ... a wonderful vintage grand touring car. having owned the most balanced BMW ever - the e30 m3 ... i would never compare these 2 cars in the way they drive ... no matter what you do to the e9. the vintage car rarely will brake or perform like a modern sports car.
with all due respect to what Alan has said, the term 'rocket' would never be applied to most vintage BMW even with a radical s38. it probably would never be compared to a modern day BMW or Porsche in speed or drive ability. think about the old top gear series where they compared exceptional vintage sports cars (like an aston martin db5) with a modern day econobox ... and all of the grand vintage cars lost badly in the competitions. if i want to drive fast and hard, i will pick up the key to my 911. would your e9 beat your e30 325is around a track ... probably not.
what i enjoy about the e9 is a beautiful car with polite manners, that is wonderful to cruise down curvy / hilly roads. it will keep a smile on your face ... and you will do it in style.
with all due respect to what Alan has said, the term 'rocket' would never be applied to most vintage BMW even with a radical s38. it probably would never be compared to a modern day BMW or Porsche in speed or drive ability. think about the old top gear series where they compared exceptional vintage sports cars (like an aston martin db5) with a modern day econobox ... and all of the grand vintage cars lost badly in the competitions. if i want to drive fast and hard, i will pick up the key to my 911. would your e9 beat your e30 325is around a track ... probably not.
what i enjoy about the e9 is a beautiful car with polite manners, that is wonderful to cruise down curvy / hilly roads. it will keep a smile on your face ... and you will do it in style.
And they, like other vintage cars of the era "feel" faster than they are... as they say, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow... especially one as beautiful as an E9.
All that I have to compare my e9 to.....
My 76 2002 is much more fun/tossable on mtn roads around here; but the old coupe isn't a slouch...just a little heavier and more mature; a more powerful feeling in a power/weight ratio kinda way, with a little less feedback thru the power steering, but not vague at all. Brakes, like the 02, are what I would call adequate for each, for the driving that I do...but then you are a little younger than I am...
Your 88 probably would be a little quieter, since there are no carbs breathing up front, and then there is wind noise...from 74-5 to 88, insulation got much better around windows, and I think sound insulation was something that the bmw engineers considered as the company became less sport sedans and became more luxury sport sedans...the difference, i.e., in my 72 2002 and my 77 320i replacement, (both long gone...) was astounding. In hindsight, I should have kept the 72 however...Smell; my wife can always tell if I have been out, as the garage has that smell of southeast TX...but I think you were going with an injected 3.5 so, probably not a concern. The biggest dif between your 88 and your coupe, will be the number of people that you will have to talk to at convenience stores, etc. If you are trying to do chores in a timely fashion, drive something else.
Louis Sullivan spoke of "form following function"...the e9 drives about like it looks.
DV
My 76 2002 is much more fun/tossable on mtn roads around here; but the old coupe isn't a slouch...just a little heavier and more mature; a more powerful feeling in a power/weight ratio kinda way, with a little less feedback thru the power steering, but not vague at all. Brakes, like the 02, are what I would call adequate for each, for the driving that I do...but then you are a little younger than I am...
Your 88 probably would be a little quieter, since there are no carbs breathing up front, and then there is wind noise...from 74-5 to 88, insulation got much better around windows, and I think sound insulation was something that the bmw engineers considered as the company became less sport sedans and became more luxury sport sedans...the difference, i.e., in my 72 2002 and my 77 320i replacement, (both long gone...) was astounding. In hindsight, I should have kept the 72 however...Smell; my wife can always tell if I have been out, as the garage has that smell of southeast TX...but I think you were going with an injected 3.5 so, probably not a concern. The biggest dif between your 88 and your coupe, will be the number of people that you will have to talk to at convenience stores, etc. If you are trying to do chores in a timely fashion, drive something else.
Louis Sullivan spoke of "form following function"...the e9 drives about like it looks.
DV
If you are already having your E9 restored isn't this a meaningless question? Once your car is done, just drive it you'll know if it's to your liking. I'd just make sure to do the 'standard' suspension stuff during restoration ( advice from VSR1)
(1) renew entire suspension and steering rubber, everywhere.
(2) make sure the steering linkage is in good shape. The non-R&P box needs all the help it can get from good tie-rod ends etc.
(3) LaJolla lowering springs with Bilstein HD or Sport shocks
(4) sport away bar kit (ST, Ireland, LaJolla, etc).
This ensures you will experience a known-good setup. If you don't like this then you know you probably aren't going to ever like the E9 baring some radical changes ... at which point you might consider a different car (2002, 911, E24/e28, Merc 104 series SLC, Alfa GTV, etc).
(1) renew entire suspension and steering rubber, everywhere.
(2) make sure the steering linkage is in good shape. The non-R&P box needs all the help it can get from good tie-rod ends etc.
(3) LaJolla lowering springs with Bilstein HD or Sport shocks
(4) sport away bar kit (ST, Ireland, LaJolla, etc).
This ensures you will experience a known-good setup. If you don't like this then you know you probably aren't going to ever like the E9 baring some radical changes ... at which point you might consider a different car (2002, 911, E24/e28, Merc 104 series SLC, Alfa GTV, etc).
inovermyhead
Well-Known Member
I wish my coupe drove as well as it looks, that said you don't have one of these cars for just the driving experience, it's a trade off and always will be. Although I have upgraded the engine, transmission, suspension, brakes and numerous other components, as well as at least 30lbs of sound deadening in an effort to make it more modern in terms of NVH it is still a 45 year old car and feels like it. I have a 9 year old E91 335 and it is like a Rolls Royce in comparison and way way faster and massively more comfortable, but that is missing the point of enjoying our old coupes.
Having just had a weekend away in the oldie that included a lap or two around a track as well as about 12 hours behind the wheel I can honestly say, the old one can hold its head up in some very fine company, attracts lots of positive comments and should be appreciated for what it is.
Cheers. John
Having just had a weekend away in the oldie that included a lap or two around a track as well as about 12 hours behind the wheel I can honestly say, the old one can hold its head up in some very fine company, attracts lots of positive comments and should be appreciated for what it is.
Cheers. John
climbernyc
Well-Known Member
Currently owning 5 different classics, to me the joy is finding the sweet spot in driving each one. My early 911 is a precise and harsh scalpel, my 280se is a marshmallow. Driving the CS with sunroof open, windows down on a country road is heaven, the beauty of the interior surrounding you while the engine hums in turbine-like smoothness, the suspension soaking up the undulating road in balanced grand touring style. Each car has a personality suited to a specific driving style...to me the CS is elegance incarnate.
it is an extremely odd question
how does a car feel like driving and you have already decided how to modify it ?
i would expect to ask for how does an stock e9 drives like but a modification will be another thing and every mod is different
to me one of the best answers is, provided slow and fast are relative words:
my 2 cents,
to enjoy an e9, to understand this car or anyother car you should drive it stock first, this way you will understand it, you will assimilate its place in its moment, you will have to drive other cars from the same era, and tell the differences, and that will be valid for your own experience
a good advice, but very difficult to fulfill is to drive other e9, i.e. i will not leave you drive mine (i am safe anyway you should need to cross the pond first to attemp such a "blasphemy")
i feel that is very relevant your country and your age, if you have had the chance to drive the cars that were available back in the seventies you will have a better starting point but in any case driving an e9 will probably be quite an experience if you keep your senses ready and "open"
generally speaking do not trust anyone saying that his or her e9 drives wonderfully, like a blast, a spaceship, or like a modern car, without any issues, and so on,...first of all those words mean different things to different people, and then every e9 has some hidden rust and some hidden issues, very few people have an e9 that is 100% perfect, and even in that case another e9 can beat them in specific issues like a better iddle, or a smoother transition, or maximum power, or better handling
moreover some of the e9s out there have been heavily modified and you will not know where you are
so your background is relevant, and your actual coupe is relevant too, not all the coupes are the same after 40+ years
generally speaking do not expect a fast car, fast in the sense of power/weight ratio, but this largely depends on your experience with other cars and in the way you drive too, it also depends if the car you use for comparison has been fitted with a ridiculous M6 engine
i can not compare with that 325is so i wont be of a lot of help to you, a friend has an stock e21 it seems more agile but that is my feeling
as you have already started some route on the transformation of the car i will not discuss on this
my experience,
i was able to drive some of that old cars (from 1969 till 1976) in the eighties, small, underpowered, and very basic cars, one thing i remember well is that they behave like boats when you steer corner to corner
my first contact with my e9 was exactly that, it was an elegant boat, underpowered, irresponsive, a lazy big boat
when i repaired the engine, steering, brakes, suspension (all kept stock) the lazy boat started to be a fast boat , but at the same time a nice boat, very safe cornering and no drifting, perceived safety was bad, but real safety proved to be good
then i went the route of CN springs and shock absorbers, and everything became less boaty but less safe as clear drifting appeared when cornering, the rest of the behaviour was better, but drift was not in my preferred vocabulary
finally i replaced the 17mm front sway bar with the 23mm one from an e12 and everything went just perfect to my taste
the rest of the setup is stock, m30b30, zeniths, 4speed, 14" rims with 205/70, only introducing the TDZ ignition to help the stock dizzy and keep the points lasting a bit longer, i use a 100 scheel drivers seat which i feel is an important part of my equation
two days ago an e46 M3 wanted some fight and i said no thank you, it is good to know where you are, i never drive against others but i love to overtake for the joy of doing it, i always help others that are faster than me, i prefer an empty road than a row of dangerous overtakes so i wake up very early, i drive the small curvy and hilly roads and i enjoy every km, i do not go to shows or gatherings, i have better coffee at home, i do not drive it in highways, i like to try those water springs in the mountains and go to buy fish directly from the fishermen boats in the harbours, i have a bunch of close friends with old bmws and vws and we meet for breakfast or lunch now and then and we talk some gasoline
i love to keep the car in top condition through frequent maintenance and fine tuning of the engine, i do not let others do this for me
every story is different, your question is nice, but to me it would have made more sense before deciding the route of your project
IMHO, many people would have loved what the real stock e9 would have been able to provide them, but they never gave/had the chance...
good luck
how does a car feel like driving and you have already decided how to modify it ?
i would expect to ask for how does an stock e9 drives like but a modification will be another thing and every mod is different
to me one of the best answers is, provided slow and fast are relative words:
my 2 cents,
to enjoy an e9, to understand this car or anyother car you should drive it stock first, this way you will understand it, you will assimilate its place in its moment, you will have to drive other cars from the same era, and tell the differences, and that will be valid for your own experience
a good advice, but very difficult to fulfill is to drive other e9, i.e. i will not leave you drive mine (i am safe anyway you should need to cross the pond first to attemp such a "blasphemy")
i feel that is very relevant your country and your age, if you have had the chance to drive the cars that were available back in the seventies you will have a better starting point but in any case driving an e9 will probably be quite an experience if you keep your senses ready and "open"
generally speaking do not trust anyone saying that his or her e9 drives wonderfully, like a blast, a spaceship, or like a modern car, without any issues, and so on,...first of all those words mean different things to different people, and then every e9 has some hidden rust and some hidden issues, very few people have an e9 that is 100% perfect, and even in that case another e9 can beat them in specific issues like a better iddle, or a smoother transition, or maximum power, or better handling
moreover some of the e9s out there have been heavily modified and you will not know where you are
so your background is relevant, and your actual coupe is relevant too, not all the coupes are the same after 40+ years
generally speaking do not expect a fast car, fast in the sense of power/weight ratio, but this largely depends on your experience with other cars and in the way you drive too, it also depends if the car you use for comparison has been fitted with a ridiculous M6 engine
i can not compare with that 325is so i wont be of a lot of help to you, a friend has an stock e21 it seems more agile but that is my feeling
as you have already started some route on the transformation of the car i will not discuss on this
my experience,
i was able to drive some of that old cars (from 1969 till 1976) in the eighties, small, underpowered, and very basic cars, one thing i remember well is that they behave like boats when you steer corner to corner
my first contact with my e9 was exactly that, it was an elegant boat, underpowered, irresponsive, a lazy big boat
when i repaired the engine, steering, brakes, suspension (all kept stock) the lazy boat started to be a fast boat , but at the same time a nice boat, very safe cornering and no drifting, perceived safety was bad, but real safety proved to be good
then i went the route of CN springs and shock absorbers, and everything became less boaty but less safe as clear drifting appeared when cornering, the rest of the behaviour was better, but drift was not in my preferred vocabulary
finally i replaced the 17mm front sway bar with the 23mm one from an e12 and everything went just perfect to my taste
the rest of the setup is stock, m30b30, zeniths, 4speed, 14" rims with 205/70, only introducing the TDZ ignition to help the stock dizzy and keep the points lasting a bit longer, i use a 100 scheel drivers seat which i feel is an important part of my equation
two days ago an e46 M3 wanted some fight and i said no thank you, it is good to know where you are, i never drive against others but i love to overtake for the joy of doing it, i always help others that are faster than me, i prefer an empty road than a row of dangerous overtakes so i wake up very early, i drive the small curvy and hilly roads and i enjoy every km, i do not go to shows or gatherings, i have better coffee at home, i do not drive it in highways, i like to try those water springs in the mountains and go to buy fish directly from the fishermen boats in the harbours, i have a bunch of close friends with old bmws and vws and we meet for breakfast or lunch now and then and we talk some gasoline
i love to keep the car in top condition through frequent maintenance and fine tuning of the engine, i do not let others do this for me
every story is different, your question is nice, but to me it would have made more sense before deciding the route of your project
IMHO, many people would have loved what the real stock e9 would have been able to provide them, but they never gave/had the chance...
good luck
Lately I've been driving a bone stock 73' US spec 4spd car with only one modification, someone put Billsteins in it at some point.... I'm surprised how good it still drives and corners and if you're willing to use all the rpms available it's surprising quick. It really all starts happening above 4k rpms and 2nd gear.
I love the way it drives. It feels/sounds faster than it is, which is great. I do find that the steering is way too soft, like a Cadillac for sure. I would love more road feel. Not sure if this is feasible.
I love mine precisely because it drives like a 45 year old car, well maybe a little better now that its lowered properly but still. I am after the time warp experience - when i get in and take in the leather smell, wood dash, chrome gauge rings, and of course the webers, i am transported back to 1972, when i get out, back to reality!
Besides if it is too fast you miss all the friendly gestures and thumbs up along the way. I'm in no hurry
Besides if it is too fast you miss all the friendly gestures and thumbs up along the way. I'm in no hurry
You nailed it Steve! Nostalgia is powerful and addictive and I get full value behind the wheel of my E9 Coupe. Then as you say, once you get out, it is back to reality. MikeI love mine precisely because it drives like a 45 year old car, well maybe a little better now that its lowered properly but still. I am after the time warp experience - when i get in and take in the leather smell, wood dash, chrome gauge rings, and of course the webers, i am transported back to 1972, when i get out, back to reality!
Besides if it is too fast you miss all the friendly gestures and thumbs up along the way. I'm in no hurry
I so agree. I am interested about lowering. I think I might've done it already but honestly not sure. I recall taking the spacers out or something along those lines. Is there a thread on this?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mike Goble
Well-Known Member
My reality is a little different. If I'm not driving my Bav ( as I have every day for 11 years ) I'm in my 73 Datsun 620, which I've had for 13 years, and hopefully I'll have my 67 Nova up and running next year. Talk the talk, walk the walk...
Well now Mike, I am in agreement: walk the walk! Days I can fold myself into my Healey 3000 are the best days. Exhilarating, smiles for days. Coupe is a whole nother level of civility...I love those 60's and 70's icons!
You gotta post a photo of the Nova with the Bav and 620.
I agree with the guys about the feel of the car, it can be modernized to drive perfect, fast and take corners like one would want but that would not be a real E9 feeling.
Or with new OE parts and stock drive train ( even with auto transmission ) be enjoyable and give a feeling of how advance a 50 years old design was compare to other cars
Or with new OE parts and stock drive train ( even with auto transmission ) be enjoyable and give a feeling of how advance a 50 years old design was compare to other cars
Mike Goble
Well-Known Member
I point this out to my Nova friends whenever we get together. I paid less for my Bav than they did for their Nova, I got a high end car from 1972 with a 1 hp/ci OHC hemi, dual carburetors, 5-speed tranny, independent f/r suspensions, 4-wheel power disc brakes, sunroof, a/c, bucket seats, internal hood latch, etc, and they got an entry level family car that needs serious work on the suspension just to get around a corner.