Ignition switch / key cylinder no start

[Norm!]

My ignition switch was only working in the start position when I pressed the key firmly into the lock cylinder. Based on previous threads I bought and installed a new ignition switch from W&N. Now the key doesn’t seem to rotate far enough into the spring loaded start position to start the car. I removed the switch from the key cylinder and the car starts when turning the switch directly with the key. The first time I installed the new switch I may have inadvertently left the the key in column unlocked position. Things didn’t mesh right with the cylinder because key wouldn’t turn into the start spring loaded range at all. After reinstalling with everything in lock position the key functions correctly except apparently not rotating quite far enough to start. Did I mess up the cylinder the first time I installed the switch? If so how do I fix it?

 

[HB Chris]

When inserting lock cylinder it needs to be in Run position I believe. I had this issue with my e12.

 

[Norm!]

When inserting lock cylinder it needs to be in Run position I believe. I had this issue with my e12.

I haven’t removed the lock cylinder. Do you mean when inserting the switch the lock cylinder needs to be in run position? The switch would need to be put there also correct?

 

[HB Chris]

With electrical portion already installed and key lock needs to be inserted, then the key needs to be in run position. I don’t think it matters if key lock wasn’t removed.

 

[Norm!]

Changing the position of the key in the cylinder before I insert the switch has no affect on starting. I am moving the switch to match so it meshes when I install it. The key does turn into the spring loaded portion of the switch movement but it doesn’t start. All I can think of that could cause it not to start is not rotating quite far enough since it works fine with the switch out of the cylinder. I guess the new switch could be defective and require too much rotation. I hate to go to the work to put the old one back in but that would be one way to test it. I don’t know how to remove the lock cylinder and wouldn’t know where to go from there to check it unless I had something to go by.

 

[02coastie]

FWIW, I’ve had the same issue on my 74 intermittently over the past 5 years. I’ve replaced the switch and lock cylinder thinking there was too much play in the old parts, preventing full rotation. It still fights with me on occasion. I think it may have to do with the “grub” screw holding the switch in, causing It to align just a few degrees shy of where it needs to be.

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

You might want to write W&N. I don't know which switch they sell, but the replacement one I got from another vendor was clocked wrong and had to be "adjusted" to make it work.

 

[tferrer]

There are two ignition switch types. The one with 90 degree tabs (pictured) and the other which is like 120 degrees. If you get the incorrect one, it won't work correctly which @sfdon explained to me with great patience. I bought mine from Carl Nelson to ensure I got the correct one. The part number is #61 321355 148

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View attachment 106922

 

[Norm!]

Thanks for all the ideas. Prior to ordering the switch I saw some threads about the 90 vs 120 degree switches. I have the 90 degree one and that is what W&N sent me. Dick, I hadn’t thought about it being clocked wrong. It wouldn’t take too many degrees of the clamping to be off for it to not work. I may go to the effort to put the old one back in to see if it works every time with pressure on the lock cylinder like it did before. That would confirm I didn’t hurt the barrel mechanism and that it didn’t decide to wear instantly. Last night I read an old thread where @sfdon said a worn barrel mechanism can cause my problem. If the old switch works I will be relieved since that should mean I don’t have to go the effort to remove round bolt heads with a chisel to replace the barrel. That really would be stretching beyond my mechanical experience.

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

Maybe compare the old switch with the new. If the grub screws and locating pins are in different positions...trouble.

 

[Norm!]

Great idea! That way I don’t have to put the old one back in to check for an obvious problem. It might be hard to measure a five to ten degrees difference but if I see anything I will swap to confirm and then contact W&N for a replacement. I’ll let you know what I find tomorrow.

 

[tferrer]

I don’t have to go the effort to remove round bolt heads with a chisel to replace the barrel.

You can dremel a groove in the heads and carefully back them out with a large regular head screwdriver... At least that's what worked for me.

 

[Norm!]

I measured the rotation and location of contacts between the old and new switches and couldn’t find any differences. So I put the old one back in and it works as before only with inwards pressure on the key. All I can guess is that the new one makes contact later in it’s stroke than the old one. At this point I have to decide whether to try and get a refund from W&N of ask for a replacement. The new switch is made in W Germany and I am not sure anyone else has a more reliable source. Carl Nelson was mentioned but I don’t know if his are from the same source or not.

 

[tferrer]

His are from West Germany I believe...

Here are a couple pics of the new one. I belive they are technically from a 320i or something like that...

 

[Norm!]

That looks exactly like my new one including the numbers. My old one looks the same except the last number is a 0 rather than a 1.

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

I'd email W&N and tell them the whole story including the PN difference. They may have a solution or an alternate switch.

 

[HB Chris]

Carl is a BMW retail seller just like a dealer but he knows how to find obscure parts.

 

[jvrenaudon]

After 50 years of use the Pebra key becomes sloppy in the ignition switch recess and the electrical connection within the switch becomes rather hit and miss. I overcame the problem by breaking into the red (I think) cable and running it to a discreetly mounted push button starter switch. This has the added advantage of confounding the opportunist car-thief for the all-important 5 minutes, too, while he searches for the action button, hopefully in vain. At least, that's what i like to believe. Best, John

 

[Norm!]

Interesting idea John. Where did you pull the power from to connect to the starter wire? I have emailed W&N to see what they say. I at least want to try another new switch first. It turns out I was reading the numbers wrong on my old switch while it was still installed. It has the same numbers on it as the new one so I don’t think it is original. I was thrown off they the parentheses at the end looking like 0 in poor light.

 

[Norm!]

I received a response from W&N copied below.

“Sorry that you have problems with a part we sent you.
Thank you for describing the problem.
We do not think that the part is defective.
When you turn it with a screwdriver and it works, it seems to be a problem of the lock barrel itself
If your old switch works when directly connected to the lock cylinder, you do not have to replace it.
Please send back the new ignition switch and we will refund the money.
You will get the necessary customs papers in a different mail.
Best regards

Albrecht Walloth
Dipl. Ing. Albrecht Walloth u. Alexander Nesch GbR”

It is hard to believe a new switch doesn’t work but an old lose one does. Clearly there are occasional manufacturing errors in everything but the incidence is probably very low. I suppose it is possible the looseness of the old switch allows it to rotate further when pushed in. Perhaps I should replace the barrel before returning the new one since I don’t want to be stuck when my sketchy switch finally completely fails. Are there different versions of the barrel? Also how do I remove the key cylinder from the lock barrel?