123 Distributor failures from oil?

[m5bb]

How many are using 123 Distributors?

Have you had to have the whole distributor replaced?

The electronic module inside can get oil in it, oil that comes up the drive shaft from the engine.

123 claims this is a problem with BMW M30 engines.
Mine has been replaced once so far.
Tell me what happened if you don't mind.

Thanks,
Gary

 

[TodB]

I’m beginning to see traces of oil inside my cap. I recall Steve mentioning that he had added a second O ring to his dist shaft? Steve, did that help?

 

[deQuincey]

How many are using 123 Distributors?

Have you had to have the whole distributor replaced?

The electronic module inside can get oil in it, oil that comes up the drive shaft from the engine.

123 claims this is a problem with BMW M30 engines.
Mine has been replaced once so far.
Tell me what happened if you don't mind.

Thanks,
Gary

certainly possible,
original distrib has two holes in the bottom to let oil go out

 

[adawil2002]

I have had the same issue with both of mine in Vern & Athena. The issue is the 123 Distributors only have an O-ring to prevent oil intrusion which always lets oil seep up the distributor shaft. Have had both of mine "rebuilt/replaced" at around 16K miles because of that O-ring.

123 has been made clear that this is a failure of their willingness to helix mill the distributor shaft as Bosch does on their distributors. Ray Koke and I have a thread on the 2002FAQ detailing his dismantling of a 123 & his correspondence with 123 in Europe. They always blame the failure on "high crankcase pressure" as the root cause.

downsides and questions about the 123 distibutor

www.bmw2002faq.com

123 Dizzy Condensation Inside Cap

I know that Vancouver is wet, but I am finding a big problem with condensation inside the cap. Any thoughts of keeping it dry? and cleaning what is there. I have a proper breather and no milky anything anywhere.

www.bmw2002faq.com

so, what's inside a USB 123?

Warning: reading this may void your warranty ;-) Helpful hint: install the 123 such that you can see the USB port so you don't fumble around plugging in the cable and dislodge the board like... someone did And it looks like I probably need a new board. I think the conductive surface is attached t...

www.bmw2002faq.com

 

[Stevehose]

I've not had any oil in my two 123's, yes I have used a 2nd o-ring but I think the oil incursion is internal elsewhere? I have found the o-ring supplied with the 123 is loose fitting, I replaced with genuine bmw one and there is another slot higher up where another fits so I run 2. I vent to a catch can so no way my engine has high crankcase pressure. Gary, did you remove the PCB in the 123 to check for oil?

 

[m5bb]

Thanks Andrew for that info. Working on this.

"high crankcase pressure" as the root cause. This is so much BS. How can an engine with a big breather tube in the valve cover have high crankcase pressure?

 

[adawil2002]

Exactly, Gary.

 

[JFENG]

I’m just speculating but that little hole in the valve cover might not be all that big relative to the displacement and operating range of the engine. And if you run looser cylinder clearances (high compression, forged?), lack a crank scraper etc., maybe you could have a bit more blow by and some positive CC pressure at times.

The CCB on my Jag 3.4l is larger than on our M30/M90’s and if I’m on a fast drive where I spend sustained time above 4000rpm and at bigger throttle openings I definitely get some oil loaded vapor coming out of the breather. It’s not a lot but it’s not zero.

Anyway, our resident expert SteveH seems to have the solution. I have a vested interest as I plan to convert several of my classics over to 123Tune.

 

[Markos]

I've not had any oil in my two 123's, yes I have used a 2nd o-ring but I think the oil incursion is internal elsewhere? I have found the o-ring supplied with the 123 is loose fitting, I replaced with genuine bmw one and there is another slot higher up where another fits so I run 2. I vent to a catch can so no way my engine has high crankcase pressure. Gary, did you remove the PCB in the 123 to check for oil?

What I am sensing here is that the ROI on the fix just isn’t there. It is more cost effective for them to just send a new distributor every 2 years. Sounds like @Stevehose has a great solution!

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that 123 may be trying to steal your oil!

 

[Luis A.]

I'm at 14,000 miles and 6 years with my 123 with no oil intrusion. I took off the PCB this summer for the first time and it twas spotless.

Steve, the o-ring you mention, as seen below, PN 12118530508, isn't for internal distributor oil control so I don't think placing two of these would account for no internal oil.

I can't think of any other mechanism that would push oil up into the distributor except crankcase pressure... It doesn't have to be much to cause oil to creep up. And if it is happening in the same car multiple times (Andrew?), you just have to wonder what is going on, while others see zero oil intrusion.

 

[Ohmess]

Well, Andrew has had this with two of his cars - one with an M30 engine and one with an M10 - and Mario Langston of VSR is helping him with this problem, so I suspect this is more of a design problem at 123 than it is something unique that Andrew is doing. And while Mario tuned both of Andrew's cars, Gary tunes his car himself, so Mario cannot be the common link.

Gary - I've not had oil in mine.

 

[Honolulu]

I had an '88 Corolla with a lot of oil leaking into the diz, partially shorting it. That diz was mounted at the end of the horizontal camshaft, so of course it was horizontal too. I solved the problem by drilling a drain hole - no trouble after that, but it did make a mess on the engine.

On the Corolla there were TWO o-rings that need to be present and functional. The visible one in the 123 pic above fits between the diz body and the head, but the other one is between the diz body and the diz shaft. Replacing the first is trivial (though you need to reset ignition timing). Replacing the second requires one to take the drive gear off the bottom of the diz (usually secured by a pin across it), slide out the shaft, after taking out the innards as needed. It was suggested I replace the Corolla diz en toto, which being frugal I refused to do.

Realoem shows P/N 12111350261 "Lubricating Felt" on the central shaft running up the middle of the diz, and above it 12111350260 Bushing, both part of a rebuild kit. Dunno if the kit is NLA...

Surprised no one has mentioned the second o-ring, felt or bushing. They are certainly just as needful to be intact as the o-ring that is easier to access. I doubt the "positive crankcase pressure" theory advanced by the 123 folks, based on the (about) 3/4 inch diameter breather hose from valve cover to negative pressure in the intake manifold.

 

[m5bb]

I'm at 14,000 miles and 6 years with my 123 with no oil intrusion. I took off the PCB this summer for the first time and it twas spotless.

Steve, the o-ring you mention, as seen below, PN 12118530508, isn't for internal distributor oil control so I don't think placing two of these would account for no internal oil.

I can't think of any other mechanism that would push oil up into the distributor except crankcase pressure... It doesn't have to be much to cause oil to creep up. And if it is happening in the same car multiple times (Andrew?), you just have to wonder what is going on, while others see zero oil intrusion.

View attachment 100890

The oil is going up the shaft with the gear at the bottom and the rotor at the top.
M30 engines are well known for blowing oil out the breather tube hole in the valve cover.
At 6000 RPM that oil lubricating the valve train is very plentiful and then with all the reciprocating mass below I can imagine the the pressure could increase.
My motor and the race motors have a oil catch can. Without it and a simple breather on the valve cover and it can be dripping oil. I did an autocross one time and stayed in 2nd gear and the rpm would go from 3000-6000 and there was oil all over the side of my block running down between the Webers. Imagine if this is hooked to your FI manifold or your air cleaner? I guess the M10 engine must be doing this too if the 2002 crowd is on it. Pretty lame of 123 to not try to fix this problem. Word does spread.
Haven't taken mine out yet to check but will soon.
Have another project that got in the way.

 

[m5bb]

Here's the update on the 123.
Photos show removal and lots of oil on shaft.
Photo showing evidence of oil on circuit board at top.
Photo showing oil internally in housing.
Photo showing shaft of dist with no machining.
Currently at brothers house (machinist) to investigate seal that is reportedly in bottom of dist housing to prevent oil from climbing up shaft.
Investigating process that Bosch does to shafts to prevent oil migration up shaft.
New board on order.
Reportedly can clean board in sonic cleaner with alcohol. That will be done and this board reinstalled to try.

To be continued...............
Gary

 

[tferrer]

Wow... No Bueno, Gary. That could leave one stranded at anytime...

 

[m5bb]

Wow... No Bueno, Gary. That could leave one stranded at anytime...

That's why I've been carrying my dist around in a box in the trunk.

 

[Mal CSL 3.0]

A bit embarrassed to admit it, but I have a Toyota distributor (from a Camry I think ). Seems to work brilliantly though.
No oil gets in and the engine runs beautifully.

 

[m5bb]

A bit embarrassed to admit it, but I have a Toyota distributor (from a Camry I think ). Seems to work brilliantly though.
No oil gets in and the engine runs beautifully. Maybe this option is better than a 123.

View attachment 101601

Whatever works is good.
Doesn't have the ability to set you advance curves though or the startup timing for easy starts or the vacuum retard for engines with vacuum ports.
Just saying.
But yes they are a problem.
I fix problems.
And I'll fix this one.

 

[m5bb]

Here's an update on the 123 story.
Here's what Bosch dist drive shaft looks like.
See the helicoil grooves at the bottom of the shaft.
This is what keep the oil from climbing up the shaft.
Unfortunately 123 does not do this to their shafts as you can see from my previous photos.
I am currently talking to my machinist brother to see if we can do this to the 123 shaft.
Shouldn't be a problem.
I'll let you know.
Gary

 

[JFENG]

A version of an “oil slinger” ...