A question of ignorance

Gazz

Gazz

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Okay - dumb question. Now that I'm starting to assemble parts of the jigsaw puzzle I go to the, cue celestial music, BLUE MANUALS, and look for torque values.
Values are shown in, the new to me kilopond meter mkp, and footpound. So why are the values shown as say 6.0 + 0.7 ( 43.38 + 5.161 )? What is the significance of the plus amount?

Another value shows 1.3 ÷ 1.6 ( 9.399 ÷ 11.568 ). Divided by????

BTW if you want to display the ÷ symbol hold down the Alt key and type 246 on the numeric pad.

So my question is - what is the actual torque value for 43.38 + 5.161?
 
as far as i can tell

usual values in europe are N.m (newtons.meter),

this values are theones that are NOT in between brackets, when said 60+0,7 is the range pf tolerance in the value, so shown as nominal + tolerance

when shown the other symbol means from / to, both are values within the tolerance

hope it helps

Gazz said:
Okay - dumb question. Now that I'm starting to assemble parts of the jigsaw puzzle I go to the, cue celestial music, BLUE MANUALS, and look for torque values.
Values are shown in, the new to me kilopond meter mkp, and footpound. So why are the values shown as say 6.0 + 0.7 ( 43.38 + 5.161 )? What is the significance of the plus amount?

Another value shows 1.3 ÷ 1.6 ( 9.399 ÷ 11.568 ). Divided by????

BTW if you want to display the ÷ symbol hold down the Alt key and type 246 on the numeric pad.

So my question is - what is the actual torque value for 43.38 + 5.161?
Click to expand...
 
Do your manuals have Nm torque values rather than the mkp and ft / lb that mine have?

My manual's values are in mkp kiloponds with the equivalent ft / lb foot pound, or pound feet as some say, in brackets.

1 mkp = 9.80665 Nm. 1 mkp = 7.2330138316 pound foot

So when you state that there is a range pf in tolerance do you mean that I can tighten to 43.3 ft / lb or tighten to 43.383 + 5.161, being 48.544 ft / lb? That doesn't seem very precise. And it doesn't explain how some values are for example -

In section 34 on page 34-0/4 under tightening torques -

Brake hose on fixed caliper. 1.3 ÷ 1.6 ( 9.399 ÷ 11.568 ).
The first value is in mkp and the second, in brackets, is in ft./lb.
How do I interpret ÷?

Another one is

Fixed caliper halves; front. 4.2 - 0.5 ( 30.366 - 3.615 ).
Note the minus symbol this time. Does this mean that there is a value but I can go less if I want to?

It seems to me that critical areas such as brakes should have a precise unambiguous value.
 
hi gary,
i am not close to the manuals now, but i can remember that the values are in newtons, and i work always with the nominal value, and if a range of two values is available i use the middle

anyway it is impossible to fix decimal values in the torque tool, so not such a precission / accurate references really needed, ;-)

regards


Gazz said:
Do your manuals have Nm torque values rather than the mkp and ft / lb that mine have?

My manual's values are in mkp kiloponds with the equivalent ft / lb foot pound, or pound feet as some say, in brackets.

1 mkp = 9.80665 Nm. 1 mkp = 7.2330138316 pound foot

So when you state that there is a range pf in tolerance do you mean that I can tighten to 43.3 ft / lb or tighten to 43.383 + 5.161, being 48.544 ft / lb? That doesn't seem very precise. And it doesn't explain how some values are for example -

In section 34 on page 34-0/4 under tightening torques -

Brake hose on fixed caliper. 1.3 ÷ 1.6 ( 9.399 ÷ 11.568 ).
The first value is in mkp and the second, in brackets, is in ft./lb.
How do I interpret ÷?

Another one is

Fixed caliper halves; front. 4.2 - 0.5 ( 30.366 - 3.615 ).
Note the minus symbol this time. Does this mean that there is a value but I can go less if I want to?

It seems to me that critical areas such as brakes should have a precise unambiguous value.
Click to expand...
 
143 views and only the ever helpful deQ responding. Tried the "Old guy" at my local dealer who remembers the manuals when they were first out and even he, after looking at the values as they are expressed, was baffled. Though he thinks that the two values may be for new fittings and old fittings with the higher value for the new of course. But he has never seen two values separated by a ÷ symbol.
So I have sent a query to BMW Classic to see if they can shed some light on it.
 
now with my books in front of me, it seems that we have different books

my torque values are in: Nm (mkp) and finally ft.lbs.

usually vaues in Nm show reasonable figures like 35 to 45, so you can use the middle one

no odd symbol

regards
 
lost in translation?

May I suggest, that in translated manuals someone transcribed / as "divide symbol". Just speculation of course. If so, maybe other places where need the original Deutsch if something is ambiguous!
Paul
 
Conversion tool

DQ is right. The second number is the acceptable tolerance. It's represented as plus+ or minus-.

I use the following measurement conversion file all the time for work. It's very handy for torque and power values.

http://wscope.com/convert.htm
 
Perhaps someone with genuine manuals could confirm something please.

In the technical data of section 34 ( brakes ) check the tightening values for "Brake disc on wheel hub".

Mine shows 6.0 + 0.7 mkp ( 43.38 + 5.161 ) ft./lb.

6.0 mkp = 58.8399 newton meter Nm

Also please check - "Brake hose on fixed caliper" Mine shows, the nonsensical to me, values as - 1.3 ÷ 1.6 mkp ( 9.399 ÷ 11.568 ) ft/lb
 
Thanks Jesus. Looks like mine is unreliable, great! Whoever had this manual before me has a car running round with loose nuts and bolts everywhere. Wait a minute, that's the other E9 I bought, it came with these manuals. Double great!!
 
Last edited:
As seen on my factory manuals with 1/76 amendment

IMG_2785.JPG
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IMG_2786.JPG
 
Thank you very much Luis. An earlier post intimated that it may be a translation issue and it appears that they are correct. What is designated as mkp is in fact Nm.

So 1.3 ÷ 1.6 mkp ( 9.399 ÷ 11.568 ) now makes sense as -

From 13 Nm to 16 Nm ( From 9.4 ft lb to 11.6 ft lb).

So I also need to offer an apology to the previous owner re loose nuts and bolts.
 
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