BMW Newbie and Potential 1973 CS Restoration

[1973cs]

Hello all,

I just joined the forum as I've had my eye on a 1973 CS parked in the underground at my apartment complex for the last several years and I may buy it from the owner shortly. I've been a Porsche guy up until now and am currently half way through the restoration of an 86 911 Targa. With that going well I'm thinking of picking up the CS as the next project and I'd like to ask for some feedback about the value of the car and what kind of fun I'm in for as I bring it back to life.

The CS is a one owner car that was bought off the showroom floor in 1973 by an architect that lives in my building. He drove it a fair bit in the 1970s and 1980s but it has sat mostly unused for the last 5 or so years. It was last fired up and taken to the car wash about a year ago. The owner tells me that other than a weak battery the engine runs well and the tranny is in good shape as well. I'll have to verify that along with a compression and leak down test to see what the real story is. What else should I look for in the engine bay when I'm doing an inspection?

The body is in fairly good shape with no major rust showing on the skin. It was originally a cream white but was resprayed (very poorly) with a gold/silver custom color in the 1980s. The panel gaps look good and the body is straight with no evidence of any collisions or body work. The chrome is in good condition and the only issue other than faded and flaking paint are missing hood ornaments (front ad back) and a missing 3.0 CS badge on the trunk. The rubber seals have seen better days and likely all need to be replaced. The owner has told me that the floor in the passenger compartment is rusted out and will need to be replaced. Since this is an early 73 and has known rust issues where else should I be looking for rust? If I find more rust are there certain things that doom the shell if they are rusted? If it's a parts car I'd rather tell the owner up front.

As for the value, I figure that it'll take at least 10-15K in parts and paint plus many 10s of thousands of dollars worth of my time to turn it into the Inka orange beast of my dreams. If I offered him $1500 CAD would I be far too low for a car in need of a whole lot of work?

I'll be checking out the car with the owner in the next couple of days so I'll post exterior and interior pics along with mileage and other info. If there are some specific things I should get shots of please let me know.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me!

Jeremy

 

[Sven]

$1,500 is pretty cheap for the car and $10-15k for restoration of a car with lots of rust is way too low, unless you are doing everything yourself (bodywork, painting...).

The "Tech Info" link in this site's header has a diagram of rust prone areas to check out. Unfortunately most areas are difficult to see without cutting and removing trim. You can see some telltale signs - paint blisters, rust in the front wheel well A pillar area. Use a flashlight and small mirror to see up into the front valence and 'A' pillar areas. If the bottom of the spare wheel well is pristine then you might get lucky with the rest of the car.

Check out the top two links in the "Links" section for gory rust pictures and how the car is put together. They may help you in determining where to look.

 

[decoupe]

Also have a look at the attached CS Rust page at CoupeKing for more bad news. As an ex Torontonian I would be really, really, really leery of any e9 that has spent it's whole life in the road salt capital of Canada. Best of luck if you do buy it.

http://www.coupeking.com/category_id-80.html

Doug

 

[1973cs]

Sven/Doug,

Thanks for the info. I'm going to check out the car tomorrow night and get some pics of the areas in question. I'm not sure whether the owner used it as a summer car only, if he did there's a chance that it'll be reasonably rust free. If he did drive it in Toronto for any length of time in the winter much of the body is likely toast

The reason I think it is OK is that the skin of the car is remarkably rust free. I guess I'll find out the answer tomorrow.

As for the price, if it is a rusty parts car I'd think 1500 is reasonable. If not, 1500 sounds like a steal. What would be a fair price assuming the rust is limited to the passenger area floor pan? I'm going to do all the work myself with the exception of the final coat of glasurit paint so the absolute dollar cost will be reasonable assuming the tub is worthy of saving. Otherwise I may take it on as a parts car and make some donations to other people's restorations.

J

 

[x_atlas0]

That part estimate may be a bit on the low side. The mechanicals are the cheap part of these cars, as the same engine was used from 1968 to 1993, the M30. Therefore, you can find a ton of good parts or complete used engines for peanuts. Shoot, I got my entire drivetrain for under 2k. (engine, diff, fuel injection system, trans) The rubber seals are another matter entirely. I probably spent about 3k on rubber alone. The door seals are ~400-500$, when they are available. Patch panels are also difficult to come by, and unlike most modern cars, the body panels are not a bolt-on affair, so any bodywork becomes mighty pricey very quickly.

The other major cost area is the interior. Almost all the interior bits are NLA, so you have to either buy used parts at very high prices, or make your own from scratch for very high prices. Things are bad enough that one member actually milled their own door panel pattern stamp, because they couldn't get the color they wanted.

So, it could be good, but just be prepared for most costs than you expect.

 

[verde2002]

Sven/Doug,

Thanks for the info. I'm going to check out the car tomorrow night and get some pics of the areas in question. I'm not sure whether the owner used it as a summer car only, if he did there's a chance that it'll be reasonably rust free. If he did drive it in Toronto for any length of time in the winter much of the body is likely toast

The reason I think it is OK is that the skin of the car is remarkably rust free. I guess I'll find out the answer tomorrow.

As for the price, if it is a rusty parts car I'd think 1500 is reasonable. If not, 1500 sounds like a steal. What would be a fair price assuming the rust is limited to the passenger area floor pan? I'm going to do all the work myself with the exception of the final coat of glasurit paint so the absolute dollar cost will be reasonable assuming the tub is worthy of saving. Otherwise I may take it on as a parts car and make some donations to other people's restorations.

J

If it is a one owner car with no accident history, nice gaps, nice chrome and minimal rust I think $1500 would be an insult to the seller and you might lose out on a good car. Why don't you take a few photos and post it so we can get a better idea of condition?

 

[Ives]

Reasonable Offer

Jeremy,

Why don't you ask him what he wants for the Coupe after you have discussed all the issues, takes some pictures, post them here, get your comments from the members and then make your counter offer?

Regards, Jon

 

[jmackro]

What would be a fair price assuming the rust is limited to the passenger area floor pan?

If you find a coupe that has NO rust anywhere except that the passenger floor pan is rusted out, then it is worth quite a lot of money because it's such a rarity. Cars usually don't just rust in one spot - Ripley's "Believe it or Not" will probably be bidding against you.

Look, we can't tell you what it's worth without really understanding how much rust it has. I will say that $1,500 is agressive - if it's a complete car, you could ebay the trim and interior and make much more than that.

Check out rust in the front spring towers - there is some sound insulation on the tops of the fenderwells, visible when you raise the hood. Rust tends to form under the insulation, and in advanced cases, is visible at the fender-wheelwell seam. The Coupe King's website at http://www.coupeking.com/product_id-481.html provides some great photos of typical rust areas - the photo below came from there.

 

[1973cs]

First set of pictures

I went down to the Garage after work and snapped a bunch of exterior pics. The car is filthy so I can't get shots of the inside yet.

Overall the car looks good. There is very little rust on the shell and the rust I did find looks superficial. Specific areas I found signs of rust were the seam below the front grill, the edge of the rear edge of the hood on the passenger side, and a small spot on the driver's front quarter panel. Panel gaps are good overall as is the condition completeness of the trim pieces. The fitment of the drivers side glass is off compared to the passenger side and the rubber seal is toast. Now on to the pics. I'll post more pics of the interior, engine and trunk compartments once I meet the owner tomorrow night.

 

[1973cs]

More pics

More pics

 

[1973cs]

And yet more pics

And yet more pics

 

[1973cs]

And a few more pics thanks to the 5 pic limit

And a few more pics

 

[1973cs]

And another bunch

And another bunch. OK, that's it for the exterior shots. I'll get interior shots tomorrow.

 

[m_thompson]

Other than being dirty, that coupe looks like mine after a partial restoration.

 

[decoupe]

CS in TO

Nothing scary so far. One thing in your favour is the lack of sunroof whose drains feed water into the rockers with no exit after the grit and veggie crap fills the drain wholes. I think it was mentioned to look at the fenders in the engine compartment under the sound deadening material on top of the strut mounts. The seam at the separation between the wiper/heater box and the engine is a natural low spot (water trap) and the long seams joining the inner and outer fender along the line of the hood. Have a close look at the A pillar where it joins the hood/trunk and the windshield seals. Look at the bottom edge with a strong light to get a view of the rockers.

Good luck. Shame about the Loafs - again.

 

[x_atlas0]

Yeah, nothing too bad so far, but there is some rust in odd places, and I'd wonder why the door is so misaligned.

 

[1973cs]

When I looked at the door it didn't appear to be damage or misaligned. It was almost like the window was too narrow. I'll find out whether it was rplaced at some point as that might be the reason. If so a properly sized used window should do the trick.

As for the rocker panels I pressed all along the rubber section and the telltale crunchy sound of rust wasn't there so the rockers just might be sound.

I stuck my camera under the car and got a pic of the spare tire well and it looks solid. So that may be another good sign.

The owner isn't available until Sunday so I'll have to wait until then for more pics.

 

[JhwShark]

use magnets to see where you have a strong bond (magnet and car) and weak ones...good to find bondo and rust...
Jon

 

[Sven]

You want to look inside the trunk under the spare tire. It will be hard to tell the condition of the tire well from the underside.

Are the doors sagging perhaps? The trunk rear edge and the area above the rear bumper do not look quite right to me. Have the bumper mounts pushed in the areas around the tail lights? or is it just an illusion of the photo?

The rear seats lift up fairly easily, so you can see some of the floor/rear suspension mount area there.

Also, open the glove box and look in the upper corner under the dash towards where the 'A' pillar comes down.

Another note: the rubber cement/glue BMW used to attach insulation (and the elephant skin trunk liner) to the car interior has a rust color so be careful distinguishing between the glue and the real stuff.

 

[HB Chris]

The rear bumper has been bumped in the middle and the lower portion of rear fenders painted with primer. All of the original U.S. `73 bits are still there however, bumper guards (flipped left to tight on the front and upside down), rear bumper hoop covers, license light covers in bumper, etc. Really need to open that hood and trunk though. The sagging door also causes some concern.