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Coronaviris (COVID19): Today 02/27/20 will be the US game changer.

Stan

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The distancing has been difficult. I am a social creature. I always wear a mask but our family visits have been from a distance. Drive by birthday parties and only recently an outdoor family dinner where we all sat far apart. Not being able to hug my grandchildren has been the hardest.
I retired and had been working from home 2 days a week so there was some social contact. That stopped last week. I do a little consulting that amounts to about 10 hours a month.
Still selling tail lights, wind deflector kits and some other bits and bobs to keep me connected with the E9 and E30 communities. Starting to go to the driving range and hit golf balls. It is a strange new reality. NH has been pretty good interns of Covid19 numbers. We all hope that people from surrounding states do not come up to visit!
 

adawil2002

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While daily life at home is the same. I've been home since March 9th. So far, my whole social car event calendar has been cancelled or postponed a year. Miss seeing my friends in person. Plus side is all my deferred home projects are getting done. Maine has been keeping numbers low, though with the influx of PA, OH NY, MA, CT, RI, VT & many Western states, all bets are off. Last ME, numbers were ~ 3,500 cases, 105 fatalities, 524 active cases.

To quote Yogi Barra, It ain't over 'til it's over.
 

Gransin

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We're back to living a pretty normal life here in my region of Finland, my young kids are now finally back to meeting their grandparents and other relatives and friends.
Nobody is wearing masks, and people are out and meeting just like before. Some restrictions are still in play (no larger gatherings allowed).
Restaurants are back to serving food at the tables and bars are open with some restrictions.
We haven't had one single case of Covid in my hospital district, and the other district closest to us, since May 29th.
 

Nicad

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Ontarioans have been very compliant in regards to hand washing and distancing. The masks also look like we will comply when indoors. Young Torontonians have not been very compliant as quite a few have gathered for mass social events despite the warnings. I have noticed a psychological toll on some young folks. My Son's oldest friend has probably not left his house in 4 months, same with my neighbour's 13 year old. I'm amazed it has been 4 months. I guess we are just waiting for what come's next. I keep my distance but am happy to do outdoor stuff with others. Have staked out an outdoor badminton court in Sunnybrook park. Bought a nice net, made some quick set up lines and have continued playing with the same friends who I have played with weekly for 30 years. Hoping the economy can take this. The economic disruption has me pretty worried about Peace and Order.(Forget the good government part which is the third component of the Canadian motto)
 

bfeng

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Hong Kong understood how serious the pandemic was and took action quickly.
It’s all about risk management. When the downside risk is huge, you usually should pay the price proactive prevention. I don’t think most of our government leaders or many average citizens understand simple philosophy. Certainly the concept is beyond the grasp of the current WH.
 

Dick Steinkamp

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It’s all about risk management. When the downside risk is huge, you usually should pay the price proactive prevention. I don’t think most of our government leaders or many average citizens understand simple philosophy. Certainly the concept is beyond the grasp of the current WH.
Unfortunately, I think that here, financial (and political) considerations generally trump (not an intentional play on words) risk and common sense considerations.
 

bfeng

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It would be good to try an engineer-type in the WH again. I know the last one didn’t do any big favors for us more scientific types, but a sample size of one should not discourage trying another.
 

Gazz

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I think it's time for psychologists and sociologists to front the problem. The people in the population are those that get it and are doing what they can, those who get it and choose to ignore protocol ( there is hope for them ) and those who simply don't and/or won't get it ( not much hope for them ). Any manipulative psychology in play will have to be a masterful act of covert coercion otherwise people will immediately be suspicious of motives.

How to drive different herds to the same corral?

There is also work for advertising mavens. Surely there's someone who can market a conception of the issues. After all, it's in their interests to get things back to normal with people buying shit they don't need from their clients. That's normal isn't it?
 

Wes

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I think it's time for psychologists and sociologists to front the problem. The people in the population are those that get it and are doing what they can, those who get it and choose to ignore protocol ( there is hope for them ) and those who simply don't and/or won't get it ( not much hope for them ). Any manipulative psychology in play will have to be a masterful act of covert coercion otherwise people will immediately be suspicious of motives.

How to drive different herds to the same corral?

There is also work for advertising mavens. Surely there's someone who can market a conception of the issues. After all, it's in their interests to get things back to normal with people buying shit they don't need from their clients. That's normal isn't it?
At the risk of pulling them all out of the woodwork (again) a great deal of work has been done on this in the context of climate denialism. Namely, how do you help someone past an ideological block in the face of incontrovertible evidence that runs counter to their world view?
Anybody who has ever tried to have a rational discussion with a Christian Scientist on the topic of intelligent design will know where I'm coming from..
 

Gazz

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At the risk of pulling them all out of the woodwork (again) a great deal of work has been done on this in the context of climate denialism. Namely, how do you help someone past an ideological block in the face of incontrovertible evidence that runs counter to their world view?
Anybody who has ever tried to have a rational discussion with a Christian Scientist on the topic of intelligent design will know where I'm coming from..
I don't know that the solution lies in the appearance of logic, any more than say advertising uses the same. The advertising methodology is most likely logical ( and creative ), however desperately yearning for the latest Lexus or a set of Hardy and Becks is not logical yet we allow ourselves to be convinced that these are things we need. We even strive for them.
The solution may lie in psychological driving forces, i.e. primary motivations such as fear and greed. Logic may apply in removing any and all reasons not to pay attention to pandemic protocols thus leaving the only logical response being to comply on the basis of understanding those reasons, but good luck with that one.
You can't reason with a sheep, you have to goad it via undesirable alternatives.
 

Markos

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The solution may lie in psychological driving forces, i.e. primary motivations such as fear and greed. Logic may apply in removing any and all reasons not to pay attention to pandemic protocols thus leaving the only logical response being to comply on the basis of understanding those reasons, but good luck with that one.
You can't reason with a sheep, you have to goad it via undesirable alternatives.
I think that advertising is a good option. However fear isn’t a great driver for behavior change. A great example of this is the US war on drugs campaigns from the 80’s and 90’s. There is no evidence to show that they had any positive effect on drug use. Contrarily campaigns that influence behavior by modeling desired peer behavior has proven to work. So a campaign that showed that 80% of republicans wear face masks could pickup another 10%. A campaign that warns of the risk of catching/spreading COVID won’t do sh*t.

I’m not an expert on this stuff, but my best friend has his PHD is psychology and focused his research and applied psychology on social persuasion. He has done a number of campaigns for the state of CA and worked in a consulting capacity for corporations trying to implement change. He was torn for a long time between getting out of research and working for a corporation or advertising firm. He is very passionate about the subject and primarily teaches psychology now. Don’t get him started on COVID and the data being reported, disputed, etc.
 

Gazz

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I disagree about fear as a motivation. In 1987 there was an extraordinarily successful ad campaign to alert the public of the dangers of AIDS.
Okay, seeing it now raises some justifiable questions about homophobic motivations and other issues but the point is that this was a fear driven campaign.
And it worked, there is now not a single homosexual in all of Australia.

( ALERT NOTICE - That last statement is intended as humourous ).
 
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Markos

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I disagree about fear as a motivation. In 1987 there was an extraordinarily successful ad campaign to alert the public of the dangers of AIDS.
Okay, seeing it now raises some justifiable questions about homophobic motivations and other issues but the point is that this was a fear driven campaign.
And it worked, there is now not a single homosexual in all of Australia.

( ALERT NOTICE - That last statement is intended as humourous ).
IMO, I don’t think this is an apples to apples comparison. Despite the controversy, this was an awareness campaign to the general public about the dangers of HIV. General knowledge of HIV at the time was exceptionally low, and as you know most people associated HIV with homosexuality and/or drug abuse. This is not the case for COVID. Coronavirus awareness has been beaten to death in the public space by both media and government. Everyone knows how it is transmitted, and that the fatality rate is at most 1% (really significantly less for never-maskers). This figure is not going to scare never-maskers into wearing, or young people to social distance. The current percentage is based on positive cases plus a fudge factor of the population that doesn’t present. Fatality percentages is a whole other topic, but the point is that the education has mostly been exhausted. Peer pressure and other persuasive campaigns haven’t been eliminated.

Also, a quick search shows that the Grim Reaper campaign had no effect on homosexual men - the only real group of individuals that were already risk-aware. Like the US, the first reported aids-related death in Australia was in the early 80’s. I only know from what I have learned in the US (netflix documentaries), but there likely wasn’t a single gay man in 1987 that didn’t know a friend or community member that had been diagnosed or died of aids. This is far different than COVID in which 1% of australia has tested positive, and 1% of that number resulted in death. US is like (1%, 4%). The fear just isn’t real for vast numbers of people. Statistically speaking, COVID shouldn’t instill much fear of death. One should fear or at least consider spreading the pandemic and civil obedience, which simply isn’t something that selfish people can grasp.

There was no increase in the number of homosexual men who presented for testing.
 

Gazz

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My general point is that current methods are ineffective for those whom ( or is it who? ) it would appear need the message the most.
In Australia there are people who are refusing to be tested because they believe that the entire situation is a hoax or a conspiracy. A conspiracy to do what??? Gather DNA, cripple the economies of the world, lock us in our homes to watch Netflix, what? Then there are those who feel that their personal freedoms are being violated. I know this because they are posting it on Facebook, Twitter et al where of course their personal freedoms are closely guarded as sacrosanct obligations on the part of those caring and benevolent organisations.
The truth is easily lost in arguments about percentages and curves.

Time for beddy-byes. Night all.
 
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