Coronaviris (COVID19): Today 02/27/20 will be the US game changer.

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Gazz

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If my wife took Pfizer and gave me AZ it means she read my life insurance policy...
Don't like AZ? If you are worried about the efficacy of AZ I consider both to be stop gap measures with boosters needed 6 months after a second jab. The 6 months booster is a likely known in the case of Pfizer and as yet an unknown for AZ, though I suspect it will be needed in a similar time. I don't know, but, if you neglect or forget your Pfizer booster then you may well be back in an unvaccinated condition. And if the AZ is still functioning at that time then perhaps the efficacy comparison, ( around 74% for AZ vs Pfizer 92 % for Pfizer ), becomes a little more skewed in favour of AZ.
 

Arde

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Don't like AZ? If you are worried about the efficacy of AZ I consider both to be stop gap measures with boosters needed 6 months after a second jab. The 6 months booster is a likely known in the case of Pfizer and as yet an unknown for AZ, though I suspect it will be needed in a similar time. I don't know, but, if you neglect or forget your Pfizer booster then you may well be back in an unvaccinated condition. And if the AZ is still functioning at that time then perhaps the efficacy comparison, ( around 74% for AZ vs Pfizer 92 % for Pfizer ), becomes a little more skewed in favour of AZ.
The AZ efficacy I recall was based on a smaller sample of younger people that got the asymmetrical dosage through serendipity not just syringe. And the efficacy pre-Delta was nothing to write home about. For the collective it lowers the R0, for the individual a 30% chance of breakthrough is bad. The Pfizer third dose feels like "if two is better than one then three must be better than two". When to apply the booster seems handwaving, and Fauci's statement that three doses is the way to get steady state immunity will inevitably face the "four is better than three" logic later.
I cannot unsee the cheerleading part of Fauci and company, not a bad gig if you can get it, the highest paid public servant or cheerleader with the flexibility to serve at the pleasure of any President just by badmouthing the previous one.

Nota Bene: I got two Pfizer doses, have more than 5000 antigens, and will get the third dose as soon as the recommended time goes by, even if Thedros calls it inmoral to get a third before others get their first dose...
 

Gazz

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The AZ efficacy I recall was based on a smaller sample of younger people that got the asymmetrical dosage through serendipity not just syringe. And the efficacy pre-Delta was nothing to write home about. For the collective it lowers the R0, for the individual a 30% chance of breakthrough is bad. The Pfizer third dose feels like "if two is better than one then three must be better than two". When to apply the booster seems handwaving, and Fauci's statement that three doses is the way to get steady state immunity will inevitably face the "four is better than three" logic later.
I cannot unsee the cheerleading part of Fauci and company, not a bad gig if you can get it, the highest paid public servant or cheerleader with the flexibility to serve at the pleasure of any President just by badmouthing the previous one.

Nota Bene: I got two Pfizer doses, have more than 5000 antigens, and will get the third dose as soon as the recommended time goes by, even if Thedros calls it inmoral to get a third before others get their first dose...
"younger people that got the asymmetrical dosage through serendipity not just syringe." - Huh?

Sampling is, by nature of increased worldwide administration of the vacc', expanding all the time.
We are witnessing beta testing on a scale unimagined by Apple, Microsoft, Samsung, etc. They would have to be watching in awe saying, "way to go covid, now that's what I call raising the beta bar".
Einstein may have said "God does not play dice with the universe" but that that doesn't stop Pfizer, Oxford, et al playing dice with humanity. Okay, that may be unfair but I reserve the right to be an arch sceptic.
Woohoo, more crazy times in a time of crazy times. That's why my avatar is who it is.
I would like to quote General Jack D. Ripper:
He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
 
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craterface

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The AZ efficacy I recall was based on a smaller sample of younger people that got the asymmetrical dosage through serendipity not just syringe. And the efficacy pre-Delta was nothing to write home about. For the collective it lowers the R0, for the individual a 30% chance of breakthrough is bad. The Pfizer third dose feels like "if two is better than one then three must be better than two". When to apply the booster seems handwaving, and Fauci's statement that three doses is the way to get steady state immunity will inevitably face the "four is better than three" logic later.
I cannot unsee the cheerleading part of Fauci and company, not a bad gig if you can get it, the highest paid public servant or cheerleader with the flexibility to serve at the pleasure of any President just by badmouthing the previous one.

Nota Bene: I got two Pfizer doses, have more than 5000 antigens, and will get the third dose as soon as the recommended time goes by, even if Thedros calls it inmoral to get a third before others get their first dose...

I will get a booster ASAP as well, since around here we are swimming in unused vaccine. 33 people died (almost all unvaccinated) over the holiday weekend here in our county hospitals. About 15 percent of our admissions are vaccinated, and immunity does wane over time. Sign me up!

Fauci is almost 80 years old, and he could have left government years ago to become a very, very wealthy consultant for pharma. Yet he continues to serve the public in his job. So you have to hand it to him for that....

Lastly, pharma doesn't make significant profits from vaccines, including this one. The vaccine is perhaps 25 bucks a dose. The Regeneron antibodies are thousands per dose. and cancer drugs like Keytruda are hundreds of thousands of dollars just to treat one patient. Cancer is where the real money is. Vaccines are just a sideshow to generate goodwill for the companies that make them.
 

Arde

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"younger people that got the asymmetrical dosage through serendipity not just syringe." - Huh?

"Officials in the United States have noted that the results were not clear. It was the head of the flagship federal vaccine initiative — not the company — who first disclosed that the vaccine’s most promising results did not reflect data from older people...
The regimen that appeared to be 90 percent effective was based on participants receiving a half dose of the vaccine followed a month later by a full dose; the less effective version involved a pair of full doses. AstraZeneca disclosed in its initial announcement that fewer than 2,800 participants received the smaller dosing regimen, compared with nearly 8,900 participants who received two full doses.
The biggest questions were, why was there such a large variation in the effectiveness of the vaccine at different doses, and why did a smaller dose appear to produce much better results? AstraZeneca and Oxford researchers said they did not know.
Crucial information was also missing. The company said that the early analysis was based on 131 symptomatic Covid-19 cases that had turned up in study participants. But it did not break down how many cases were found in each group of participants — those who received the half-strength initial dose, the regular-strength initial dose and the placebo."
 

Arde

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Fauci is almost 80 years old, and he could have left government years ago to become a very, very wealthy consultant for pharma. Yet he continues to serve the public in his job. So you have to hand it to him for that....
That can be said of many presidential candidates, and still they run for office and fight with all their might to stay.
A book just came out analyzing 50 years of leaders in another country with no term limits, very impressive people, the only common thread is that all except one left too late...

Lastly, pharma doesn't make significant profits from vaccines, including this one. The vaccine is perhaps 25 bucks a dose. The Regeneron antibodies are thousands per dose. and cancer drugs like Keytruda are hundreds of thousands of dollars just to treat one patient. Cancer is where the real money is. Vaccines are just a sideshow to generate goodwill for the companies that make them.
 

craterface

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That can be said of many presidential candidates, and still they run for office and fight with all their might to stay.
A book just came out analyzing 50 years of leaders in another country with no term limits, very impressive people, the only common thread is that all except one left too late...
I truly don't think Fauci has gone past his "sell by" date, but yes others in government around him may have. Fauci is still very sharp. Not perfect, but sharp. And a lot better than Dr. Scott Atlas (a radiologist), or other so called "experts" who advised the previous administration on infectious diseases, by basically telling the administration what they wanted to hear.
 

Gazz

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"Officials in the United States have noted that the results were not clear. It was the head of the flagship federal vaccine initiative — not the company — who first disclosed that the vaccine’s most promising results did not reflect data from older people...
The regimen that appeared to be 90 percent effective was based on participants receiving a half dose of the vaccine followed a month later by a full dose; the less effective version involved a pair of full doses. AstraZeneca disclosed in its initial announcement that fewer than 2,800 participants received the smaller dosing regimen, compared with nearly 8,900 participants who received two full doses.
The biggest questions were, why was there such a large variation in the effectiveness of the vaccine at different doses, and why did a smaller dose appear to produce much better results? AstraZeneca and Oxford researchers said they did not know.
Crucial information was also missing. The company said that the early analysis was based on 131 symptomatic Covid-19 cases that had turned up in study participants. But it did not break down how many cases were found in each group of participants — those who received the half-strength initial dose, the regular-strength initial dose and the placebo."
Ah, thanks for that. Yes, there were plenty of dodgy test results, especially from AZ / Oxford, hence my scepticism.

Just reread my post #1144. Must remember to stay away from a keyboard after Merlot.
 

Dan Wood

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@craterface is spot on. I have had some doctors (specialists) that I am surprised can keep their license and others that walk on water! One caused more problems than he fixed. Dr. Scott Atlas did more harm than good. Dr. Fauci is doing much more good than the alleged harm as stated by some.
 

bavbob

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OK, getting on a soap box as an MD for 30 years at a major teaching hospital. Get out the Merlot first...........

As there are bad and great mechanics, there are bad and great physicians. Most bad physicians think they are great physicians.......this combo of ignorance and arrogance is detrimental.

Sadly, the American public has become intolerant of any ailment and run to the doctor for things many of us and our parents just sat tight and got over. There is barely the concept of the flu or a cold. Barely a concept of a GI bug. These are Covid and cancer to the public until proven otherwise. Nobody is willing to "just give it time and get better". Sadly, the media and politicians ( those people that became a physician, epidemiologist, virologist etc during 3 years of law school) stir the pot by scaring the crap out of the public. I won't get into the massive underestimation of the cost of defensive medicine. The current youngsters have been taught that excess testing will cover your ass. Health care cost will never come down until the public's hysteria over every ailment, calms down.

When I trained, you had a differential for a problem and you ranked most to least likely and pursued them as such. Your differential was oriented vertically. Now it is oriented horizontally and the last possible thing is worked up to the same extent as the most likely thing. They are worked up simultaneously to save time and increase throughput. Meanwhile this costs the patient time and creates anxiety.

When I log in each morning into EPIC (the OMR made for administrators, not doctors, with its 100 drop down menus on each page), the administrators have it set up so my starting page lists my productivity! Damn right I let them know this is deplorable. I actually have set up rules on my email to automatically dump all emails from administrators into the trash.

I tell my kids every time they complain about something physical that "God just did not make us that fragile"! One more quote which pertains to me and possible others... "things could be worse, we could be younger".

Now take your second glass.................
 

CSteve

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Bob, a colleague's wife is a gastroenterologist at Fox Chase Medical Center in Philadelphia. Now part of the Temple U. Medical system. Each year her productivity quotas or whatever you call them go up. And up and up. She is a dynamo who is burning out but trapped in the great Yaw of a giant, uncaring, "non-profit"(a big ha to that one) Medical behemoth.

Hospitals have become like colleges and universities, top heavy with administrators with little to do but justify their existence and create committees to study the committee structure. When my college doubled the size of the employee parking lot I said, "whoa, we haven't hired more than a dozen tenured faculty in the last dozen years." But we have tripled the size of the administration during that time. And enrollment has been flat or falling slightly. It has been 20 years since I heard a student complain about not finding a parking spot. Actually, one large student lot a bit of a hike from the classroom buildings is half full at best.

Then came the 15% drop in enrollment and the Covid layoffs. Many of the people laid off(all administrators and their support staffs who have support staffts) have been told, their position is never coming back. Community Colleges like mine have suffered the most during Covid. Our students are the most vulnerable to downturns in the economy, and the Covid downturn has been devastating for them personally and financially.

We are starting this fall semester on paper thin ice.
 

Gransin

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I just got the test results in and I'm currently positive for Covid, got my first symptoms on friday morning. It did hit hard and came right out of nowhere.
Woke up early friday morning and went to work, just as I was going to have the first coffee break I felt something strange going on, something was not right.
Just stood still for a little while to check if I was just imagining things, but nope, a very unpleasant feeling was creeping over me, so I jumped in the car and went straight home.
Since then I've been mostly in bed, unable to do almost anything else but go to the toilet and grab something to eat.
I've had high fever since friday afternoon 38° - 39° (100F to 102F) with the maximum amount of painkillers. And headache, cough, runny nose, loss of taste and smell.
The worst thing is definitely the musclepain, just can't find a comfortable way to rest.

I'm 33 and have taken my first dose of vaccine, no other health issues and I like to think of myself as pretty fit and eating healthy.
Have been masked and mindful of washing my hands, practicing reasonable social distancing so I've got absolutely zero clue where I got it.

Not much fun at all.
 

Gazz

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Norway is set to remove all domestic coronavirus restrictions with the population at 80% vaccinated. Not sure that they can establish a covid controlled microcosm unless they restrict cross border travel. If they achieve 100% vaccination plus booster shots and defeat the virus they may lead the way out of the pandemic.
It's interesting that Norway frequently leads in other ways such as quality of life, standards of education, social welfare, stable economy.
 

CSteve

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Gosh, Gazz, why are we still living where we live? What would any sentient, rational, intelligent, clear thinking human being do in the face of the Norway way of life.

Steve, here in Trumperica. God save us.
 

Gazz

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Gosh, Gazz, why are we still living where we live? What would any sentient, rational, intelligent, clear thinking human being do in the face of the Norway way of life.

Steve, here in Trumperica. God save us.
Now now. That wasn't an exercise in America bashing, or any other country, including my own. Australia has one of the lowest advanced country vacc' uptakes, though it has accelerated rapidly just recently. Our advantage as an island continent meant we were able to shut down our borders very quickly. Also, megalomaniacal state premiers with newly realised powers shutting state borders in a hitherto completely open access country created "safety" zones which controlled outbreaks. Our low covid infection rates and consequent death rates have induced a high degree of vaccination complacency here which will inevitably stall our recovery compared to many other counties, such as Norway. There is every reason we could have done just what they did, meaning we would be well on the way out of shut downs, but we missed the opportunity. And dismayingly continue to do so.
There are many reasons for Norway's "success". Norway has a population of just 5.5 million people, a population size that I suggest with which it is far easier to institute national programs, and with a far more compliant social structure the programs tend to be successful. They have enormous oil wealth with which to engage in social programs.
A sovereign wealth pool of 1.4 trillion dollars* - think about that in terms of the population size. Add in the high level of education and you have a formula.
As I stated in earlier posts - this pandemic will have many many follow on studies as to what went wrong and what to do in future.

*That's nearly 2.6 million dollars in invested savings for every man, woman and child.
 
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Markos

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I just got the test results in and I'm currently positive for Covid, got my first symptoms on friday morning. It did hit hard and came right out of nowhere.
Woke up early friday morning and went to work, just as I was going to have the first coffee break I felt something strange going on, something was not right.
Just stood still for a little while to check if I was just imagining things, but nope, a very unpleasant feeling was creeping over me, so I jumped in the car and went straight home.
Since then I've been mostly in bed, unable to do almost anything else but go to the toilet and grab something to eat.
I've had high fever since friday afternoon 38° - 39° (100F to 102F) with the maximum amount of painkillers. And headache, cough, runny nose, loss of taste and smell.
The worst thing is definitely the musclepain, just can't find a comfortable way to rest.

I'm 33 and have taken my first dose of vaccine, no other health issues and I like to think of myself as pretty fit and eating healthy.
Have been masked and mindful of washing my hands, practicing reasonable social distancing so I've got absolutely zero clue where I got it.

Not much fun at all.

Godspeed Robert! Please keep us posted. I’m confident that you will pull through just fine after having that first dose. Take care of yourself!

With my unvaccinated 7yo in a school
of 300+ unvaccinated kids, and my having multiple family members coming to town. I feel like we have about 30 days on the clock. Will report back later.
 

Gazz

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Certainly I knew that was not America bashing. It's the sad reality.
By my assumed guess of the tone of your remarks I wasn't sure if you were being facetious.
It's so easy to infer a biased meaning in texting that isn't necessarily intended by the messenger.
 

Arde

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Norway has a population of just 5.5 million people, a population size that I suggest with which it is far easier to institute national programs, and with a far more compliant social structure the programs tend to be successful.
An aide to Xi Xinping tells him that the Norwegians are protesting China's recalcitrant stonewalling of the Covid progression investigation in China.
- Xinping asks who are these Norwegians.
- The aide says, you know, about 5.3M people of Northern Germanic origin.
- Ah! 5.3M people, and what hotel are they staying in China?

Small is beautiful Xi.
 
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