Coronaviris (COVID19): Today 02/27/20 will be the US game changer.

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Gazz

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Why can’t there be automated machines eat the coffee house entrance where you scan your vaccine doc? If you fail, you get an obnoxious beep. And this machine also doubles as part of the contact tracing system. It this knows if you have been violating the rules, and you get a govt fine in the mail. Haven’t they implemented this sort of thing in a number of Asian countries?
There you go! Take it further - instead of an obnoxious beep a verbal message, loud enough for everyone to hear, "YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF COMMUNITY SAFETY PROTOCOLS. RETURN TO YOUR HOME. THE DRACONIAN GUARDS HAVE BEEN ALERTED".

In Australia we have contact tracing via a QR code app which is displayed at entrances anywhere people go. Theoretically mandatory it is widely ignored due to fatigue, complacency, etc. Most people here are wearing masks and sanitising so there is some justification for hesitancy at a further control step. So, though a machine may seem like a solution compliance with its use still has to be policed somehow.

Just get vaccinated so we can get this thing over with.
 

Gazz

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How many of the 666,000 died with Covid compared to because of Covid?
That's like saying that you must limit legitimate war fatalities to being shot on the beach.

Once numbers get so high it doesn't matter whether they died directly from covid or from other causes as result of the pandemic. All of the flow on consequences are directly related to viral contagion. Get vaccinated and the arguments about who died, why and how will be moot when the death stats plummet.
 

Dick Steinkamp

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How many of the 666,000 died with Covid compared to because of Covid?
I'm not exactly sure of what you are asking, but if you look at "Excess Deaths" there are probably 300,000 more US deaths that would not have occurred without Covid, that are not reported as deaths due to Covid.




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Bearmw

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I asked because to me it matters if someone went to the hospital with say chest pain that was heart related but tested positive for Covid ( often with a PCR test) and subsequently died from a heart issue they may have been counted as a Covid death when Covid wasn't what brought them to the hospital or ultimately what killed them. This would skew the stats. I have worked for state agencies and have seen my share of government malfeasance and outright lying at pretty high levels which has contributed to my level of skepticism.

I think I will no longer comment on this topic because I have strong opinions on it that go well beyond the choice of whether to get a shot or not and am unlikely to change anyone's view regardless of what I say or post. That's OK and I get plenty of opportunity to argue in my day job. Here I'll stick to the car stuff.
 

sfdon

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Doing what I believe to be the smart thing to do- I walked into CVS Pharmacy today with no wallet in my back pocket.
Explained that I would like to get a COVID shot and no- I hadn’t had one yet and had no ID.
Got my booster done. Thanks to the millions of Americans that have refused their shot. Thank you very much. And no- my increased magnetism did not set off any alarms on the way out.
 

Gazz

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Doing what I believe to be the smart thing to do- I walked into CVS Pharmacy today with no wallet in my back pocket.
Explained that I would like to get a COVID shot and no- I hadn’t had one yet and had no ID.
Got my booster done. Thanks to the millions of Americans that have refused their shot. Thank you very much. And no- my increased magnetism did not set off any alarms on the way out.
Way to go Don. Simple, wise, elegant and efficient. And crafty.
 

Markos

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How many of the 666,000 died with Covid compared to because of Covid?
I asked because to me it matters if someone went to the hospital with say chest pain that was heart related but tested positive for Covid ( often with a PCR test) and subsequently died from a heart issue they may have been counted as a Covid death when Covid wasn't what brought them to the hospital or ultimately what killed them. This would skew the stats. I have worked for state agencies and have seen my share of government malfeasance and outright lying at pretty high levels which has contributed to my level of skepticism.

I think I will no longer comment on this topic because I have strong opinions on it that go well beyond the choice of whether to get a shot or not and am unlikely to change anyone's view regardless of what I say or post. That's OK and I get plenty of opportunity to argue in my day job. Here I'll stick to the car stuff.

If you feel the discussion doesn’t pose a problem for the most important aspect of the site (the love of e9’s), then I encourage you to post away. Diversity of opinion is important. :)

Personally, I think that the comorbidity
argument that you are raising is not evidence-based. I think it is a talking point for covid deniers. Post a statistic that is sourced from a medical journal and not from a tax shelter nonprofit with a targeted agenda.

Doctors are required to indicate the primary cause of death. If you contract covid, marinate in the hospial for 14 days, and die of hypoxia, was covid was the primary cause of death?

If you are sideswiped by an F350 and pass 10 days later in the ICU due to heart failure, should NHTSA count the fatality as collision related?

Ignore that last scenario. Would never happen. No room. The ICU is full of unvaccinated COVID patients.
 

Markos

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In other news…

My colleague was our for two weeks. Turns out he was in the hospital the entire time. What we don’t see on zoom is that he is still sucking down oxygen tanks at home (as he informed me).

My good friend was over this evening. O.R. Nurse... All elective surgeries cancelled due to COViD. All ICU rooms are full. His hours are cut because they can’t operate. They have the surgical staff but have no rooms and staff to support patient recovery. Mind you, this is in a state (not just a county) where 73% of the population has at least one vaccine shot, 68% fully vaccinated.
 

sfdon

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if other forum members go looking for vaccines-

consider the Moderna… that was my choice.



An early release CDC studyTrusted Source analyzing the performance of the three vaccines against the Delta variant suggests they’re 86 percent effective at preventing hospitalization and 82 percent effective at preventing severe outcomes and urgent care.
Researchers also found that the Moderna vaccine offered the most significant protection at preventing hospitalizations at 95 percent.
Pfizer-BioNTech was 80 percent effective at preventing hospitalization, and the J&J vaccine was about 60 percent effective at preventing hospitalization
 

Arde

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if other forum members go looking for vaccines-

consider the Moderna… that was my choice.



An early release CDC studyTrusted Source analyzing the performance of the three vaccines against the Delta variant suggests they’re 86 percent effective at preventing hospitalization and 82 percent effective at preventing severe outcomes and urgent care.
Researchers also found that the Moderna vaccine offered the most significant protection at preventing hospitalizations at 95 percent.
Pfizer-BioNTech was 80 percent effective at preventing hospitalization, and the J&J vaccine was about 60 percent effective at preventing hospitalization
I knew that Don would dyno test the vaccines and go for horsepower :). 3x more antigens at the wheels!
 

TodB

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Doing what I believe to be the smart thing to do- I walked into CVS Pharmacy today with no wallet in my back pocket.
Explained that I would like to get a COVID shot and no- I hadn’t had one yet and had no ID.
Got my booster done. Thanks to the millions of Americans that have refused their shot. Thank you very much. And no- my increased magnetism did not set off any alarms on the way out.
Did they email you your new SSID and password to become a WiFi hotspot?
 

Markos

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I do not have a Telegraph subscription and cannot find this elsewhere, but my eyebrows are up to my forehead from the headline.

Ugh I hate the paywalls on news media sites. I’ve paid for newspapers my entire life but for some reason I insist that online news should be free. :)
 

Antar

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I'm already vaccinated but I am scheduled to run the 2021 Boston Marathon in-person next month. This is the first Boston Marathon since April 2019 and my first in-person marathon since the start of the pandemic. I would like to get a booster vaccine. I might have to implement the SF DON technique mentioned above to try and get a booster beforehand.
 
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craterface

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I asked because to me it matters if someone went to the hospital with say chest pain that was heart related but tested positive for Covid ( often with a PCR test) and subsequently died from a heart issue they may have been counted as a Covid death when Covid wasn't what brought them to the hospital or ultimately what killed them. This would skew the stats. I have worked for state agencies and have seen my share of government malfeasance and outright lying at pretty high levels which has contributed to my level of skepticism.

I think I will no longer comment on this topic because I have strong opinions on it that go well beyond the choice of whether to get a shot or not and am unlikely to change anyone's view regardless of what I say or post. That's OK and I get plenty of opportunity to argue in my day job. Here I'll stick to the car stuff.
Yes, what you describe has certainly happened.

But it doesn't matter. You are 11 times more likely to die from/with COVID if you are unvaccinated. This is from the most recent national data. The death rate of patients who either have COVID infection or happen to test positive but are hospitalized "for some other condition" is still 11x higher for unvaccinated patients.

If you don't believe the national data, here is a graphic put out by my local hospital system here in Ft Myers/Cape Coral showing the approximate 10:1 ratio of unvaccinated to vaccinated patients in the ICU. The ones in the ICU, sadly, are the ones closest to death, so I think it is safe to extrapolate that the dead here in our county are approximately 10:1 unvaccinated:vaccinated.

My wife and I are both physicians. I am lucky to be a specialist, so people don't come to see me for cough/cold symptoms, but my wife has patients coughing in her face all day long. It's been horrible for her. She doesn't have the option to "work from home". So the failure of individuals to vaccinate has conseqeunces for others down the road, and especially health care workers. Is this fair?

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