Coronaviris (COVID19): Today 02/27/20 will be the US game changer.

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Wes

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I've no issue with taking down posts that constitute uninformed opinion that may actually cause physical harm. Have we all forgotten somebody suggesting to take bleach as a treatment, and some people actually did?

As to @golfbaveria I'd say this, borrowed from a lawyer mate. "Your freedom of individual expression ceases at the point your fist contacts another's face." Put another way, we can all be individuals up to and until the point that one's individual expression causes, or is likely to cause, harm to another.

Conspiracy theorists and anti-vaccers on the whole seem to think they can spout off whatever crap they like because it's their god given right. Even under your express and implied Constitutional freedoms (US & AUS) there are still potential consequences - defamation is one example, negligence is another.

Our moderators do a cracking job on here. I'll also add that at law they are publishers and have a duty of care and that trumps @golfbaveria's right to post whatever they feel. That said, you are still free to head off down the street with some sandwhich boards if you wish.
 

Nicad

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Well I found the link. So can anybody who's curiosity is piqued. There are a few politicians like this in Canada. Just a few. (Maxime Bernier of the People's Party of Canada being the only one of note) they don't get much press, and were denied any coverage in the last recent federal election, where all the parties were on the same page on most issues. Made for a debate that didn't ask many questions. (This party was not included in our federal debate despite clearly out polling the Greens who were included in it). In the end they pulled in 6% of the vote in Ontario, which was triple their last election result.
 

Gazz

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I want to know who deleted my post on here of what the German MEP Christine Anderson said in a speech a few days ago. "It went too far?" Are you kidding me? You have 66 pages of BS mostly, "take the shot, don't questions anything!" And you can't post one of the most courageous and thought invoking politicians on the planet to at least take a look at what is really going on? Markos, you started this thread more than a year and a half ago and are a moderator so I am guessing you deleted this post, this is not my opinion but whole heartedly believe a lot of people on here need to read what SHE said, not me.......

Either you take this whole thread down, or repost her speech transcript or I won't be back on this site. PERIOD. You can't have it one way. This is what is driving people crazy in this country and around the world. Sad that it took someone in Germany to speak the truth before the US. Nobody should be offended by what she said. They should be enlightened. Take it or leave it but all I have read on this thread is, "let's all get our shots.....yeah!!!!!" You've gone too far by deleting that post. That was cowardly, plain and simple. There was no offensive language whatsoever, it was a German MEP's speech at a press conference that has more courage than whoever deleted my post of her speech......unacceptable! Her words should resonate with some of you, you are censoring free speech. So, repost the transcript.
Why don't you just refer us to the speech so we can choose to watch it, or not, and form our own opinions rather than insist it is posted here?
 

Arde

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I've no issue with taking down posts that constitute uninformed opinion that may actually cause physical harm. Have we all forgotten somebody suggesting to take bleach as a treatment, and some people actually did?
That is absolutely false.

My son once told me take any issue you really understand and then see what the press write about it. You will be disappointed to see how far the coverage is from your knowledge.

Here is the fact check on the Biden claim you are parroting:

Here is the press briefing itself:

Trump implied (correctly) that the sun and heat may kill the virus, our company's AC was retrofitted to include UV lamps in the air circuit to do precisely that, and that technique is known for decades. Going outside to open air and sun was probably the safest place to be, and the bleach was a question to Dr. Birx on whether the lungs could be somehow disinfected emphasizing he is no doctor and is just inquiring.

Fauci said no masks were needed and some people actually followed his advice. Is that uninformed or what? Should we censor Fauci?
 

Wes

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That is absolutely false.

My son once told me take any issue you really understand and then see what the press write about it. You will be disappointed to see how far the coverage is from your knowledge.

Here is the fact check on the Biden claim you are parroting:

Here is the press briefing itself:

Trump implied (correctly) that the sun and heat may kill the virus, our company's AC was retrofitted to include UV lamps in the air circuit to do precisely that, and that technique is known for decades. Going outside to open air and sun was probably the safest place to be, and the bleach was a question to Dr. Birx on whether the lungs could be somehow disinfected emphasizing he is no doctor and is just inquiring.

Fauci said no masks were needed and some people actually followed his advice. Is that uninformed or what? Should we censor Fauci?

Go back and read my post. You're aware of how a question mark works right? As in I was questioning the veracity of the claim(s) contained in the sentence.

My point was, and remains, freedom of speech/expression isn't absolute, as it's subordinate in some circumstances to the rights of others. In this case that manifests as accepting moderation is the cost of admission to membership of this great site.
 

Gransin

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So anybody who is skeptical towards the mRNA vaccine is a conspiracy theorist and an anti-vaxxer. God that's an easy way to look at things.
Would you for example vaccinate your soon to be 5-year old children, at this point? That's something I probably will have to decide on in a while.
Will I be an anti-vaxxer if I choose not to..?

I think we need to allow opinions from both sides, what's the point with a thread like this if both sides can't be heard? I read @GolfBavaria 's post before it was removed, and it wasn' t so controversial that it needed to be removed IMO.
Better to discuss it, than to remove it.

Is this thread really worth losing well-known members for?
 

Dan Wood

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This is one of the best forums I have ever been involved with. I have dropped a paying membership with a different non related forum due to an unfair and opinionated moderator. I do not see this as being the case with this forum and I certainly hope no one leaves due to a deleted post. Some of my posts on this subject have also been deleted and I am ok with that as I believe I am a guest here, Some posts related and not related to the E9 / E3 can get emotional and may need "moderation". I don't know Shane but I do enjoy his posts and anyone that likes Steven Wright is ok in my book. I certainly hope no one leaves.
 

Aussiecsi

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....this Forum consists largely ( if not solely) of adults that can think for themselves . If moderators are not prepared to consider an alternate view to things then may as well pull the thread altogether as it will be seen as simply espousing a certain viewpoint . And no, I'm not an anti-vaxxer or conspiracy theorist but if i was , so what ?....reead what i Have to say and either refute it or ignore it . If it all becomes too "political' ( which it has beome) then it is contravening the Forum rules and best deleted rather than fracture friendhips . What people say/think here all amounts to nought in the scheme of things anyway.
 

Arde

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Go back and read my post. You're aware of how a question mark works right? As in I was questioning the veracity of the claim(s) contained in the sentence.

My point was, and remains, freedom of speech/expression isn't absolute, as it's subordinate in some circumstances to the rights of others. In this case that manifests as accepting moderation is the cost of admission to membership of this great site.
I apologize if I misunderstood your post. I interpreted it as saying that it is ok to censor uninformed opinions if they can cause physical harm, and then gave Trump's bleach example as a scientifically uniformed opinion that caused harm.

I am afraid your question mark did not define if the veracity referred to bleach curing Covid or to Trump claiming it did.
It may take more than a single ? operator to define your intent, and reading it 100 times does not help.

Throwing Trump into the mix adds no merit to your argument, and it may offend some members gratuitously.

Fully agree with your underlying point about moderation.
 

Gazz

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I think we should be very careful about how we treat our moderators. In the case of this thread, in which I have been an active participant, moderation calls for duty above and beyond in what is after all a car forum; so give them some slack.

I like that some of the expressed opinions are at odds with some of mine as it makes me consider those of others and rethink my own. I don't have a covid doctrine. I do think that vaccination is probably the best current solution however there are certainly plenty of caveats.
I chose AZ and my wife chose Pfizer in case one of them has consequences, that way we won't both have the same problems.

Meanwhile E9, and other, life goes on.
 

GolfBavaria

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Why don't you just refer us to the speech so we can choose to watch it, or not, and form our own opinions rather than insist it is posted here?
Thank you Gazz and (everyone else that had some kind words), well, I was going to post the link, but just decided to post the transcript. Like you say, people can choose to watch this or not, looks like some peoples heads might explode at some free thinking here and counterpoints to all the people that fell in line and took the jab.

Here it is below, this should not offend anyone that is open to reason and in my opinion it is very well written and said and this lady is very brave for saying this, and from the deletion and responses I'm sure you can understand why I say this. We will see if this stays up or not. Here is disclaimer: READ AT YOUR OWN RISK OF HAVING HEAD EXPLODE OR NOT! C-mon people, I thought we were all grown adults here. And thanks to those of you that understand there are other OPINIONS out there on this subject. It's on Twitter & YouTube for you know who's sake. How offensive can it be? And that is why I said, either get rid of this thread, or listen to what others have to say, digest it how you like and move on if you don't like it. Were we not taught to listen to counterpoints to everything and form our own opinions or has all that changed? Copy and paste links below it you like, or don't, doesn't matter to me.

Chistina only:


Full Speech here and well worth listening to all of it.

 

GolfBavaria

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I've no issue with taking down posts that constitute uninformed opinion that may actually cause physical harm. Have we all forgotten somebody suggesting to take bleach as a treatment, and some people actually did?

As to @golfbaveria I'd say this, borrowed from a lawyer mate. "Your freedom of individual expression ceases at the point your fist contacts another's face." Put another way, we can all be individuals up to and until the point that one's individual expression causes, or is likely to cause, harm to another.

Conspiracy theorists and anti-vaccers on the whole seem to think they can spout off whatever crap they like because it's their god given right. Even under your express and implied Constitutional freedoms (US & AUS) there are still potential consequences - defamation is one example, negligence is another.

Our moderators do a cracking job on here. I'll also add that at law they are publishers and have a duty of care and that trumps @golfbaveria's right to post whatever they feel. That said, you are still free to head off down the street with some sandwhich boards if you wish.
Wes we obviously don't see eye to eye on this. With what you say here, "Your freedom of individual expression ceases at the point your fist contacts another's face." Put another way, we can all be individuals up to and until the point that one's individual expression causes, or is likely to cause, harm to another."

There was never any threats of physical harm, punching people in the face, or anything of the sort. Australia is blowing people's minds all over the world how they are handling this situation with such oppressive and physical instances like fist to people's face (including old lady's). I've seen the video's, frankly they are shocking. Australia used to be on my bucket list.......NOT ANYMORE! I value your opinion however and I am not offended in the least. Thanks for the commentary.
 

Markos

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I think it is only fitting that the guy who started the thread ends it. I won’t attempt to get any “last words” related to COVID.

I did my very best to stick to health discussion. COVID made that difficult for all of us, no matter which way we lean politically, and how much we trust or distrust scientists, corporations, and politicians. We gave it a fair shake and learned a lot about each other, even if we may not have learned much about the disease or the pandemic.

I have been an active forum member on various auto sites for just under 25 years. Same username in fact. Only the last few years as a moderator. I learned very early that while free speech may be encouraged on a forum, we are guest speakers in a private venue. On this site, you can count the number of locked threads and banned users on two hands. It is far different from any other forum that I frequented. This speaks to the moderation tactics of the site owner as well as the civility and respect of the members.

The medical path of choice is clear for all members of this forum. COVID is just a part of life for all of us now. It is no longer novel. At this point, all we have left is public healthy policy and politics to discuss.

I don’t wish to advance a thread that pits members against each other, and causes members to question the motivations of the volunteers that support this not-for-profit enthusiast site. There is no conspiracy or other motives behind the closure. The topic has run it’s course on this site. Let’s move on to car content

A huge thank you to all who participated! Another shout out to @dang for letting us dip our feet into political waters now and then, and trusting me to keep the thread going as long as we did.
 
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