CSL cloning kit - UK

Keshav

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That will be an expensive and fake CSL with just the VIN/ paperwork costing 30 grand. The few parts included are worth only a fraction of the asking price.

Something like this should be getting the 'new genaration' CSL owners worried! Specially the ones overseas where such CSL experts are far and few to be found, for a thorough inspection.
 

Christopher

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This is the second time a CSL logbook with the vin plate has been offered on Ebay recently.
Beware if you are looking at a RHD CSL with a different engine number and no history. Suspect CSL's must be out there already
 

Keshav

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And....... this one, according to the ad seems to be connected to a restoration shop for E9's.

If the history/ owner of a for sale CSL, isint very clear and going back at least 20 odd years, precaution is a must. As many CSLs in Germany and the UK which were junked for various reasons, with rising prices, creative minds are at work and reproducing them.

Both fortunately and unfortunately, a true and comprehensive list with VIN's of surviving cars is not documented, not even with BMW.

Recently 2 4355xxx BATs (with same VIN's) showed up. What a schock that was for both (or one) owners!
 

afishe

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if it included the correct CSL engine and maybe some or all of the original CSL parts AND they declared the vin number so it was public and hence anyone assigning it to a new shell would have to declare the 'car' had been reshelled, i wouldnt have a problem with this. but a secret CSL vin and a pair of new doors - that is a really bad look for the garage selling and they should know that. and 30 grand!! - there is a good chance i would sell you my whole csl shell, alloy panels, vin plates, paperwork, correct engine, diff, interior, wheels for that*

*pickup only please, located on a small island in the south pacific, offer subject to just how terrifying the restoration estimate comes back at after my meeting with the restorer next wednesday!
 

floridabmx

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You'd be amazed how common this is. I sold two rust buckets of early split window buses for a couple grand. Frames barely holding on. And some guy in europe purchased them off me for a good amount. His friend who brokered the deal was huge in importing/exporting. I believe what they were doing is buying buses in Brazil (they made split window up until 75, and even used thicker gauge metal) and swapping parts and vins over and calling it a restoration. I really wouldn't be surprised if he sells this lot and gets close to his asking price.
 

afishe

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Not wishing you a frightening estimate but i'm in if it is ...
You'd be amazed how common this is. I sold two rust buckets of early split window buses for a couple grand. Frames barely holding on. And some guy in europe purchased them off me for a good amount. His friend who brokered the deal was huge in importing/exporting. I believe what they were doing is buying buses in Brazil (they made split window up until 75, and even used thicker gauge metal) and swapping parts and vins over and calling it a restoration. I really wouldn't be surprised if he sells this lot and gets close to his asking price.
looks like this repair shop selling the VIN has decided to put a relatively small one off profit over long term reputation. They could mitigate this by giving the VIN number in the listing (why wouldnt you if you wanted it to be used for legitimate purposes?) The doors parts and vin all still have some value if the vin is disclosed - just not as much I would guess.....
 

Tony.dreamer

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Something seriously odd about this ad. If I was selling a basket case I would be very descriptive to the finest detail so the buyer knows exactly what they are getting without having to call and ask. Unless he is looking for the buyer that wants the vin plate to do just as few here suspected. But even at that why not list the vin#?
Or may be he is luring in a potential customer for a restoration? Buyer may be thinking if they are Intrested they will ask question and then I tell them bits of the info and ... “ You buy it and we restore it for you ..... “...
CREATIVE MARKETING!!!
 

Keshav

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Something seriously odd about this ad. If I was selling a basket case I would be very descriptive to the finest detail so the buyer knows exactly what they are getting without having to call and ask. Unless he is looking for the buyer that wants the vin plate to do just as few here suspected. But even at that why not list the vin#?
Or may be he is luring in a potential customer for a restoration? Buyer may be thinking if they are Intrested they will ask question and then I tell them bits of the info and ... “ You buy it and we restore it for you ..... “...
CREATIVE MARKETING!!!
Which equals to fraud. Between the lines, it sounds almost like they can 'build a CSL on order'with the VIN and logbook.
 

nosmonkey

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Something seriously odd about this ad. If I was selling a basket case I would be very descriptive to the finest detail so the buyer knows exactly what they are getting without having to call and ask. Unless he is looking for the buyer that wants the vin plate to do just as few here suspected. But even at that why not list the vin#?
Or may be he is luring in a potential customer for a restoration? Buyer may be thinking if they are Intrested they will ask question and then I tell them bits of the info and ... “ You buy it and we restore it for you ..... “...
CREATIVE MARKETING!!!
It is quite obvious to all that its a V5 and chassis numbers to make a CS into a CSL. Otherwise known as cloning or ringing and is illegal. Company is passing it off as memorabilia which is the usual get round to selling things like this. If he listed the VIN I imagine if registered to his name it would be quite easy to obtain his details for use in an investigation, and also if the VIN was known to have been taken from a scrap CSL, when it next surfaced on a car it would dramatically reduce its resale value.
 

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and if they disclose the VIN, future buyers will know which 'CSL' not to buy!
CSL prices make for desparate measures!
 

Tony.dreamer

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It is quite obvious to all that its a V5 and chassis numbers to make a CS into a CSL. Otherwise known as cloning or ringing and is illegal. Company is passing it off as memorabilia which is the usual get round to selling things like this. If he listed the VIN I imagine if registered to his name it would be quite easy to obtain his details for use in an investigation, and also if the VIN was known to have been taken from a scrap CSL, when it next surfaced on a car it would dramatically reduce its resale value.
Ok now, I get it ! Thanks for clarification. But $40,000 for a memorabilia?
 

Keshav

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That will be one expensive fake! Although I think that there are people out there that can be misled.
This is not new and surely other, so called CSLs, are 'floating' around.
Common practice in the collectors world of art, antiques, pottery etc.
 

nosmonkey

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Ok now, I get it ! Thanks for clarification. But $40,000 for a memorabilia?
Thats how they mark it down to get it past eBay rules.

Very common to see this kind of stuff with mk1/mk2 ford escorts, with people sticking RS2000/AVO chassis plates on 1.3 2 drs.
 

nosmonkey

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V5 (or V5C) is the logbook for the vehicle. I guess the American equivalent would be a title? Contains information such as no. of previous owners, current and previous owners address, Vehicle make and model, engine displacement and so on.
 

Tony.dreamer

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Ok ! I guess V5 (or V5c) is the paper document similar to title in USA ... but does V5 show how many it previously had?
 

Christopher

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I messaged the seller to be clear about what's being sold. Here's his reply .....


Hi,

What is Inc is in the listing on ebay if you read the description but here is what the price is for:

V5 Inc chassis plate to weld in and vin plate.
A pair of alloy skinned CSL doors.
Front and rear CSL / CSI disc brake RHD axles in need of refurbishment.

No engine.

It is currently not on sorn.

I have a manual 4 speed gearbox, manual pedal box, prop shaft and RHD steering column and maybe a few other parts but not much.

It is a white CSL number 63 of 500 RHD Cars made.

As you are aware this v5 allows someone to turn there standard e9 into a £100,000 plus car if they wanted to convert it so send me your best offer.
 

nosmonkey

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Ok ! I guess V5 (or V5c) is the paper document similar to title in USA ... but does V5 show how many it previously had?
Yes, up until recently it was possible to fill out a form (V888) which provided all information the DVLA had on our for that vehicle (our version of the DMV). For £5 this included about 30 pages of history documenting all owners, addresses, original dealer and previous reg. numbers
 
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