CSL in Mecum Auction

Wes

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At the risk of sounding harsh here are my observations.

Look at the image of the back of the car looking at the spoiler and lights. Is it me or does the whole thing lean to the left?
The other thing here is I don't think this is a genuine 'Batmobile' is it? By that I mean one of the final generation that had an engine capacity over 3.0L?
Even if it was a final generation I'm assuming the flare kit has been added later. Assuming it's a 1972 build I don't think it can be a Bat as they came later?
Petty much all of the interior trim is gone, along with just about all of the original patina.

The reason I mention all of this is from my observations for a CSL to get good money it has to be pretty close to OEM, or have minimal modifications.
No issue (normally) with what people do to their own cars but if this was a genuine LHD 1972 CSL I'd take the 100k and run as it's now basically a track car and has zero appeal to those who will pay good money for a CSL. Don't think you could even get a ban find CSL for 100k these days!



Perhaps I'm just tired and cranky as been out in the workshop all day :)
 

Markos

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Want to like it. Drawn to motorsport colors. Don’t like it at all. :( If the provenance dates back to 2016 heritage races, one must ask why someone gutted a CSL. I’m likely missing a chunk of information.

Lastly, I wouldn’t buy a CSL on Bill of Sale, especially when the original firewall VIN is absent.
 

gazzol

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It's interesting that this didn't make that much money compared to a road car. Here in the UK we have a car enthusiast celebrity called Jay Kay and he too had a group 4 type E9 racer built and sold it at auction number of years ago and I seem to remember that it made a lot less than everyone expected. I've heard of non CSL coupes making more money than that in America recently.
 
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Wes

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It's interesting that this didn't make that much money compared to a road car. Here in the UK we have a car enthusiast celebrity called Jay Jay and he too had a group 4 type E9 racer built and sold it at auction number of years ago and I seem to remember that it made a lot less than everyone expected. I've heard of non CSL coupes making more money than that in America recently.

Think that's the point. This is a group 4 tribute, not a real Bat as I understand.
 

offpage

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I missed the “bill of sale” bit, I guess you don’t need a title if all you do is track the car, but it does make it more complicated for the buyer.

I also found a reference to the car
From the little I know, it doesn’t seem like a CSL VIN - and it’s listed as a 1973 not a 72.

Seems if they were serious about selling it they would have provided more info

And I thought it is a Group 2 kit, but again, I know very little about this world
 

HB Chris

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I missed the “bill of sale” bit, I guess you don’t need a title if all you do is track the car, but it does make it more complicated for the buyer.

I also found a reference to the car
From the little I know, it doesn’t seem like a CSL VIN - and it’s listed as a 1973 not a 72.

Seems if they were serious about selling it they would have provided more info

And I thought it is a Group 2 kit, but again, I know very little about this world
Hard to believe the conceptcarz pic as it lists it as a 73 CSL but VIN is a 74 RHD 3.0CSA so who knows.
 

CSL177

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I know the car and pretty sure it's not a CSL. Predator Racing was supporting two "CSL"s at most events I participated in back then. AFAIK both were built from regular E9s.

HSR Sebring Winterfest 2009 080 (2).jpg
 

CSL177

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No, those cars are Grp 5, bigger bore sports and GTs from 1960-74. Corvettes, GT350s, big Jags, RSR's, etc.
I ran Grp 3 which is about the same period for Historics, but smaller displacement.

Back to the car: the ad states it has aluminum hood, doors and trunk? Alloy trunks weren't used with the bat-kit, they aren't strong enough to take the downforce.
And the hoods on both of those cars had trick modern latches that popped up, so definitely set in fiberglass. You can see them (& homemade splitters) clearly here:

EDIT: My bad! Splitters are the stick-on repops, installed backwards!

HSR Sebring Winterfest 2009 080 (4).jpg


Either the ad is erroneous or much has been changed on it in the past 10-11 years. Don't get me wrong, they're nicely built and seemed dependable.
But if I had built a car to run that class, it would have a duplicate of the factory suspension, rear-mounted alternator, slide-throttle injection, and centerlock
BBS wheels shod with Michelin TBs or gumball Goodyears. I'm a slice-of-time purist about racing historics. ;)
 
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shanon

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HHmmm...got the log book?...I was there...
  • Participant in the Rolex Monterey Reunion in 2016 and 2018
  • Participant in the Monterey Pre-Reunion at Laguna Seca in 2016 and 2018
Don"t remember this one.....hhmmm?!
 

gazzol

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Hard to believe the conceptcarz pic as it lists it as a 73 CSL but VIN is a 74 RHD 3.0CSA so who knows.
If the VIN says 74 CSA then that's what it was made as so basically it's not a CSL at all. Working on that basis I could call mine a CSL, it has the panels so why not?
 

Markos

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If the VIN says 74 CSA then that's what it was made as so basically it's not a CSL at all. Working on that basis I could call mine a CSL, it has the panels so why not?

Now that it is established that it isn’t a CSL I like it a lot more. The title should be fixed, but otherwise it seems like a great setup for real racing. It least it isn’t a mediocre-at-everything racing tribute car. :)

This body isn’t my favorite. I like the pig cheeks on the Schnitzer cars, and the group 5 kit. Everything in between with exception to Luigi doesn’t do it for me. I’m just talking looks. I am completely ignorant when it comes to tying the body and flares to an era and period racing eligibility.
 

Klassic

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Perhaps I can clarify matters.

This car was CSi A. RHD. It was stripped down for restoration in the 90s , but never made it through the process. The rolling shell was to be sent to the crusher after parts were robbed as spares for another e9.
A kit was obtained and fitted, the rear wing is genuine, taken from a crashed UK CSL. The engine is a lightly modified M106 . Suspension was modified to adjustable coil overs all-round, larger front stubs. Spherical bearings all-round. Brakes are period AP clamshells with pedal box. Converted to LHD to accommodate the turbo. The body had a steel boot lid and bonnet, but doors were skinned in aluminium. MS dashboard with period VDO instruments. Wheels are period spec.

Completed 2005, this was advertised and sold out of New Zealand as a period type new build CSi. Finished in Motorsport colors simply because they look nice.

The original owner and builder couldn't stand and watch the car go to the crusher, so it was saved and built as a period type e9 to be used for classic racing. It raced twice in NZ collecting a win before being sold to the USA. This was due to the owner desperate to raise needed funds for his engineering business.

De Foor ended up with it and gave it a life it would never have had in NZ. It's been well loved and very successfully campaigned over many years under Defoor ownership. He has stamped his own mark and made a few developments from the first build.

In short its a fabulous period type race car albeit with later history, but very notable all the same. It's not a factory car, never claimed to be, that was always speculation on other's parts. The description on Mecum needs work and detracts from how good the car is .

I was at a dinner with Chris Amon where we chatted for a while about the project, he was very supportive of my efforts and appreciated the wing type kit being fitted as in his words they didn't handle too well without it. He was a great guy.

As to value, it worth far more than the bid.
 
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