Front window removal on 73+ cars

[Bmachine]

I have spent a long time doing various searches for this but I am coming up empty handed. I must not be using the right keywords... There are plenty of How To's for rear windows and a few for pre 73 front windows (including the excellent https://sites.google.com/site/kdelimon/windowregulatorremoval that was referenced by JMakro at some point) but the later cars have the regulator in the upper part of the door frame instead of the lower part. Pre '73 on the left, '74 on the right.



Most write ups mentioned to remove the 4 10mm bolts that hold the motor around the large opening at the bottom half. I am assuming that on a '74, it is only 3 bolts in the upper section. I could simply disassemble everything but I want to avoid loosening any bolt that will cause misalignment, I want to be sure.

Once the regulator is out, I want to be able to get good access to the channels so I can clean them up. I assume the best way is to remove the glass for this. correct. Any chance of doing that without remove all the bolts that go through the glass (and which could crack if tightened too much). Thankfully DQ has a very thorough write up on this, (although I did not originally find it because I was using "front window" as my search criteria and that did not pull it up for some reason).

Lan-renewal of door trim, rubbers, clean and regrease of mechanisms,...

for the people interested, there is a solution planned for the mechanism spring support, a drawing: it is in production right now... panel is prepared and finished with all the holes done: tip: to make a better fit i opened the holes for the clips to 12mm instead of 11mm, if there is a...

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Thank you.

 

[HB Chris]

Bo, just the three bolts, then remove arm from bottom of door glass. I use a strong clamp to hold up the glass when the regulator is removed.

 

[Bmachine]

Ah. Gotcha. Thanks Chris.

 

[Bmachine]

From what I read, it seems like removing the regulator to clean it all up is straight forward enough. But can the guide rails be cleaned well enough without removing the glass? My windows are well adjusted now and I shiver at the thought of not being able to get them back to where they were.

And, if not, can the front window glass be removed without having to remove the triangular vent window?

 

[deQuincey]

From what I read, it seems like removing the regulator to clean it all up is straight forward enough. But can the guide rails be cleaned well enough without removing the glass? My windows are well adjusted now and I shiver at the thought of not being able to get them back to where they were.

And, if not, can the front window glass be removed without having to remove the triangular vent window?

yes you can

 

[HB Chris]

Bo and I just chatted, often the motor has to be removed from the regulator itself to remove the regulator assembly. Not too difficult but a bit tedious to access the bolts.

 

[Bmachine]

Thank you Chris. I removed the 3 bolts that appear to attach the motor to the regulator... but the motor will not separate. Part of me thinks that it is "frozen" in place by years of gunk but I don't want to force it to separate with a chisel unless I know that there are no other bolts hidden. The difficulty is that I cannot remove the assembly from the door without separating the two and therefore, it is not easy to see if there is a hidden attachment someplace. I went on to realoem but there is no diagram of the electric motor that I can see. 51/35 shows the regulator with no mention of the motor and 51/34 shows the manual windows only...

kurtd has a detailed write up but it is for early cars and the regulator is completely different. https://sites.google.com/site/kdelimon/frontregulatordisassembly

Does anyone know if indeed there are only 3 bolts to remove to separate the motor from the regulator on a '73+ car?

 

[Bmachine]

I determined that indeed there are only 3 bolts that attach the motor to the regulator. Unfortunately even after removing them the motor will not separate.

I went to the passenger side to see if I had better luck there. Unfortunately everything worked out the same. Motor would not separate and the whole assembly cannot move out because the motor is blocked behind the front. I decided the only way (apart from disconnecting the front rail which I want to avoid at all cost) is to try and force it out. And lo and behold that worked. At least on the passenger side. After looking at the removed assembly, it confirms that the 3 bolts are all that hold the motor to the regulator. So why is it not separating? It appears that it is press fit into matching points in the regulator.

I have not been as lucky with the driver side. I have most of the motor past the rail but there is one screw that will not clear it. See pics. The first two are taken from the bottom of the inside of the door looking straight up. A screw at the edge of the motor (hidden by the rail in the pic) keeps the whole thing from squeezing past the front trail.

Unless someone else has any other idea, my next step is to try and force the motor to separate on the assembly I was able to remove and see if there is any secret to why it is stuck.

 

[HB Chris]

Bo, loosen the nut/bolt at bottom of A pillar allowing it to move towards door skin, it will give a bit more room. It’s tricky but I’ve never had that much of an issue.

 

[HB Chris]

As I mentioned before, your arm is pointing up, I have kept mine pointing down. Energize motor to move it a bit.

 

[Bmachine]

Victory at last!

In the end it was a combination of a little bit of everything. Loosening the front window rail alignment bolt at the bottom, lower the arm so that the whole unit could pivot clockwise (on the driver side) and therefore the lower section of it could start protruding a little bit through the big triangular door opening at the bottom, a measured dose of brute force and an unmeasured torrent of non family safe language.

Nothing comes easy with these old cars.
Correction: The MB door stop conversion was easy.

Thank you Chris!

Now on to the ever so fun part of scraping off all the old gunk off the channels while they are still in place in the door.

PS: Heavy leather gloves are a must for this operation as your hands are constantly banging and scraping against the edge of the sheet metal.

 

[Bmachine]

It’s tricky but I’ve never had that much of an issue.

The passenger side went fairly easily. But the driver side was a different story.

 

[HB Chris]

I knew you would get it!

 

[JayWltrs]

Victory at last!

In the end it was a combination of a little bit of everything. Loosening the front window rail alignment bolt at the bottom, lower the arm so that the whole unit could pivot clockwise (on the driver side) and therefore the lower section of it could start protruding a little bit through the big triangular door opening at the bottom, a measured dose of brute force and an unmeasured torrent of non family safe language.

Nothing comes easy with these old cars.
Correction: The MB door stop conversion was easy.

Thank you Chris!

Now on to the ever so fun part of scraping off all the old gunk off the channels while they are still in place in the door.

PS: Heavy leather gloves are a must for this operation as your hands are constantly banging and scraping against the edge of the sheet metal.

That's the same way I felt when I got mine freed! But I have to go back in, and I am dreading it.