Group 2 CSL Batmobile

[Jamie B Patrick]

(not mine )

Group 2 BMW 3.0 CSL ‘Batmobile’

Exceptional recreation by Laranca, built on original CSL, ready to race, virtually new.

racecarsdirect.com

 

[Wes]

I think we may have seen this car before?
If it's the same one it started out as one of the original ones with the twin carbs.
Somebody on here will know.

 

[HB Chris]

2285437, RHD CSL

 

[Markos]

2285437, RHD CSL

I wonder if the historical rules care about moving the steering wheel. It is hard to understand the starting point without seeing some before pics. This seems like an extremely reputable shop, but I would be measuring sheetmetal gauge and scanning before pics on *any CSL racecar. This car is $300K, but is a top notch real race build.

 

[HB Chris]

Well as the early e9 race cars were all 2800CS prior to the factory 3.0CSLs and much later Batmobiles, it always seems a bit strange to me to call any of the standard 2800CS or 3.0CS coupes a CSL or even a Bat as they were modified later from a standard chassis. This one is a CSL obviously but it was never a Bat. And as Peter G. would agree, the tributes tend to dilute the bloodlines of the true CSLs and Bats. The ad doesn't mention the RHD source either.

 

[sandhu]

2285437, RHD CSL

Hi Chris ...100% sure this car is rhd 437 ???

 

[HB Chris]

It has a vin plate

 

[mr bump]

If a dog is born in a stable, it's not a horse is it?

 

[frogisland]

A couple of non-fans of replica race cars

Plenty of 'original' cars that have managed to dilute there own 'bloodline'; non original running gear including engine, bodywork components and even dare i say it suggestions of one or two not even their original chassis anymore . Not sure how some well built, and even HTP'd, race cars 'dilute' originals of any marque, if anything they do the opposite, although some will never be convinced. Certainly in Europe, it would be a very rare occasion to see an original on the race track if it were not for the 'replicas' that make up the bulk of numbers and support most of the events. OK, they're 'replicas' but mostly modern builds; usually accurate but without 'historic' race pedigree. Also, given the value of most of the original e9 race cars, many are rarely seen never mind raced. Yes, it is exciting to talk to a driver/owner and appreciate they are racing an original car, there are several whom do this regularly - but they are becoming increasingly rare. The car above is a good build, and will likely add to the many numbers that are seen out regularly. You would be surprised at how many 'replicas' are currently being built, and what you would otherwise miss out on is the proliferation of Group 4 cars that are in build and will be out racing in the next year or so - now that will be exciting to see.

Had not better post any pictures of my e9 Group 2 race car 'replica', 'reproduction', hommage' etc.....oh and mine is also a LHD build, converted by BMW Concessionaires to RHD and now back at LHD.

Also, how often do you see a Group 2 e12 out? Bill Cutler has his out in Europe from time to time. My Eddie Keizan 'replica' will i am sure be a very welcome addition to the race scene giving many historic racing fans an opportunity to see what is an unusual car on track. Or maybe it's a dog or diluting the series so shall not bother

I know, it's an old discussion with many opposing views. Simply, some can afford to buy, have sat in a showroom and occasionally have raced original cars, whilst some of us can only have life long dreams of scraping together and making huge sacrifices to build and race these complicated and evocative machines.

 

[sandhu]

It has a vin plate

Hi Chris ...just seen the photos of the car on the website and vin says it's a RHD csl

who in their right mind would convert a genuine RHD CSL , in to a replica race car ? ,
unless you shit money every time you do a no2..

My records show 437 RHD is one of 5 RHD factory Alpina cars ever made for the UK market.
Now their is 4 left ..
If I wanted a replica race car , I would just buy a E9 cs, csa and turn in it into race car and enjoy it ...

 

[Stevehose]

Not too long ago RHD csl’s were way under valued and close to regular cs prices here in USA

 

[sandhu]

Not too long ago RHD csl’s were way under valued and close to regular cs prices here in USA

Mint RHD Csl cars have sold between 180/200k GBP here in the UK

Mint RHD CSI have sold for 60/80k max

Other E9 Mint models Have sold for 40/50k max

 

[frogisland]

Appreciate what you are saying Sandu, but many of these builds commenced when values were somewhat lower. Myself included, looked at e9's of all type and selected one that was most appropriate for my specific race car build; CSi's AND CSL's, as you probably know, and possibly thankful....i didn't 'sacrifice' a CSL in the end. The above Alpina car is a different story though, irrespective of value!!!

I also did the same with my e12, whilst all the running gear is M535i, i came across a solid car (the most solid e12 i've ever seen BTW, requiring just a couple of hours of metalwork - now that's a rarity) and it is based on a 525...as per the original MLE.

 

[HB Chris]

A couple of non-fans of replica race cars

Plenty of 'original' cars that have managed to dilute there own 'bloodline'; non original running gear including engine, bodywork components and even dare i say it suggestions of one or two not even their original chassis anymore . Not sure how some well built, and even HTP'd, race cars 'dilute' originals of any marque, if anything they do the opposite, although some will never be convinced. Certainly in Europe, it would be a very rare occasion to see an original on the race track if it were not for the 'replicas' that make up the bulk of numbers and support most of the events. OK, they're 'replicas' but mostly modern builds; usually accurate but without 'historic' race pedigree. Also, given the value of most of the original e9 race cars, many are rarely seen never mind raced. Yes, it is exciting to talk to a driver/owner and appreciate they are racing an original car, there are several whom do this regularly - but they are becoming increasingly rare. The car above is a good build, and will likely add to the many numbers that are seen out regularly. You would be surprised at how many 'replicas' are currently being built, and what you would otherwise miss out on is the proliferation of Group 4 cars that are in build and will be out racing in the next year or so - now that will be exciting to see.

Had not better post any pictures of my e9 Group 2 race car 'replica', 'reproduction', hommage' etc.....oh and mine is also a LHD build, converted by BMW Concessionaires to RHD and now back at LHD.

Also, how often do you see a Group 2 e12 out? Bill Cutler has his out in Europe from time to time. My Eddie Keizan 'replica' will i am sure be a very welcome addition to the race scene giving many historic racing fans an opportunity to see what is an unusual car on track. Or maybe it's a dog or diluting the series so shall not bother

I know, it's an old discussion with many opposing views. Simply, some can afford to buy, have sat in a showroom and occasionally have raced original cars, whilst some of us can only have life long dreams of scraping together and making huge sacrifices to build and race these complicated and evocative machines.

Just to be clear, I have no problem with replica race cars. I feel they should be disclosed as such, sorry if you were offended.

 

[frogisland]

Just to be clear, I have no problem with replica race cars. I feel they should be disclosed as such, sorry if you were offended.

Never offended, and, always appreciate and will listen to other points of view, even if they differ widely from mine. Created a good discussion point and I thank you for that.

 

[Keshav]

My records show 437 RHD is one of 5 RHD factory Alpina cars ever made for the UK market.
Now their is 4 left

Hi Sandhu,
is there any verification of the 5 Alpina RHD CSL’s being B2 or B2S cars? Or were they ‘souped up’ from Alpina dealers in the UK on customer request or Infact Alpina factory cars, ie with Alpina titles?
Does the UK BMW Club list them as such?
thanks
Keshav

 

[Markos]

Never offended, and, always appreciate and will listen to other points of view, even if they differ widely from mine. Created a good discussion point and I thank you for that.

I like the CS race builds, and my someday project is a CSL tribute. My objection to CSL donor racecars is that the builders hack off the firewall, and subsequently the chassis VIN. Other than looking “racecar”, there really is no need to hack up the cowl with a 30 degree M30 install. Plenty of period e9’s never cut up the firewall, and there is room above the pedals or in the bay for master cylinders. There is room in the cabin or near the headlights for coil packs, ECU’s, etc.

 

[Markos]

Never offended, and, always appreciate and will listen to other points of view, even if they differ widely from mine. Created a good discussion point and I thank you for that.

I like the CS race builds, and my someday project is a CSL tribute. My objection to CSL donor racecars is that the builders hack off the firewall, and subsequently the chassis VIN. Other than looking “racecar”, there really is no need to hack up the cowl with a 30 degree M30 install. Plenty of period e9’s never cut up the firewall, and there is room above the pedals or in the bay for master cylinders. There is room in the cabin or near the headlights for coil packs, ECU’s, etc.

If you want to cut the firewall off your CS, have at it. Leave the CSL chassis intact.

 

[sandhu]

Hi Sandhu,
is there any verification of the 5 Alpina RHD CSL’s being B2 or B2S cars? Or were they ‘souped up’ from Alpina dealers in the UK on customer request or Infact Alpina factory cars, ie with Alpina titles?
Does the UK BMW Club list them as such?
thanks
Keshav

Only info I have is 5 Alpina RHD cars came directly from the Alpina factory to the UK...with the B2 engine

Some owners of RHD CSL cars had their cars fitted with Alpina accessories on their cars directly from the BMW dealers
At the owners request !!

 

[mr bump]

I think people are missing the point here. Owners who own an original E9 racecar will never race it, it's worth way to much. So they have a exact copy built and race that, the only thing sacrificed is 2 or so pop rivets for the vin tags. This is a very common practice, in fact I'd say the "motorsport" world is as bent as the art world.

And dont get me started on building or registering a photo of a known scrapped racer out of an old book.

Records were not the strong point in the 70s, and many vin's were swapped over night.

Case 1....mark webber's CLR merc, flipped over and smashed up on saturday, totally rebuilt ready to race within a few days.......but theres a car missing from the MB museum

Case 2, fords RS 1800 mk2 rally cars prepped by David sutton motorsport.
Two cars wearing the same reg at the same time on the same day, but 1500 miles and a ocean apart.

No one knows exactly what goes off, only the people who do it.