how to asses the state of my engine, what to do with it, and how to proceed?

eriknetherlands

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I am in need of some assistance.

I am at this point, and I'm a bit puzzled how to proceed with 'engine things'.

The engine needs to come out to fix my body properly, so I want to "do the engine" while I am in there.
The thing is, I have little knowledge on how to determine what needs to be done on my engine, nor what makes sense to do, or skip
An engine shop could easily fool me.... And I do not like to be in that position.
But i have 2 capable hands, and I have you guys!

My target:
I would like to achieve : 1. Durability for ~50.000km, 2. Reach at least the 180Hp it left the factory with, 3. Keeping the Carbs and 4. have the appearance of a period correct engine,
IF it needs it, then I am OK to sink 5K into it, but I'd like to do as much as i can myself, to enjoy it, learn, and keep my money for skiing trips & a decent paint job.
Timing wise... it needs to be ready when I've fixed the front end of my car + having it completely painted. As i am bloody slow, this means plenty of time.

How did it ran (10 years ago...)
I've covered about 17.000 kms with it (~10.000 miles) over the 4 years that i drove it as a daily. I parked it in 2015. I've only filled the oil, checked gaps, replaced spark plugs and set the points. It ran quite OK-isch, I'm guessing with about 120-140 HP. It topped out at max 170km/hour (105 miles/hour) but it was eating oil (1 liter every 2000 km's _ 1/3 gallon every 1200 miles). When letting go of the gas at highway speeds, the tailpipe emitted a nice blue smoke, which I've learned means valve seals likely need replacement. Also it's fuel consumption was about double that of the factory specs, but i am assuming it was likely bad carbs. Upon removing the 2 aluminum air intake manifolds, I noticed the inlet gaskets were not correct for the mating surfaces, showing paths were dirty air was drawn into at least 2 cylinders (pic linked here https://e9coupe.com/forum/attachments/20211112_004632-jpg.130481/ ) . The engine is not numbers matching, coming of an E3. The engine number is 2110339; it also has 3.0 stamped on it I think. Realoem links this number to a E3; 3.0S Euro, Automatic from October '73. The head has been replaced as well; (see pics) it is dated 87, and it has the later intake ports.
That's all I know about the engine.

I have already sourced a 5speed and 3.45 LSD, both of unknown state. However to keep (some) speed in the resto, I'll likely build the car up as it was, automatic, and convert to 5spd/LSD whenever i feel the need in 5 or 10 years from now. The block has been drained from coolant 10 years ago (so it sat for about 3 years with coolant), and oil was poured on top of the cylinders. It still rotates by hand on the flywheel. Only the automatic gearbox is still attached and the oil filter, and it's in the car still.

Now, How to dive in?
  • Do i just take the parts of the engine one by one, out of the engine bay, and measure stuff (what?)?
  • It doesn't have the starter motor mounted anymore, so doing compression testing would require me to source a new starter and mount it with a spare battery. Would that provide valuable info & warrant to spend the time to buy & mount it? I do have compression numbers somewhere from when i bought it in 2012...Do they still carry any value?
  • If I hoist the engine out and drop it off at a classic car engine builder, is it generic enough that they will just know what to do with it?

Ideally:
I'd pull it all apart myself, measure what's good / not good, and then go to an engine builder to get fixed what is needed, having the knowledge of what's OK&NOK, and what it should be after paying the bill to call it a success.

Please hit me with all your pointers, tips, tricks and pitfalls.
 

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Hello Erik,

I would certainly pull off the cilinder head. So you can inspect the pistons and the cilinder-wall. Also you can inspect the cilinder head.
One of the things to do is to replace all the old gaskets for new one.
 
I enjoyed my engine rebuild project very much - and I see it as similar to your goals of having ability to do a lot yourself and farm out the machining expertise etc to others. Since you’ve been burning oil, obviously the head needs rebuilding (and possibly rings also) and opportunity for a 284 cam.

This is also an opportunity to upgrade the block with a cylinder hone/bore and high compression pistons. I had mine bored for 10:1 pistons, crankshaft polished, rotating assembly weighed and then all assembled into the block. I did the rest of the assembly.

Then you would likely get your 180hp goal.

Disassembly is quick and easy, assembly requires care and concentration but is immensely rewarding.
 
i second what was said @Stevehose

i did mine recently, it is not a complex task

disassembly is easy, except head elements; when it comes to camshaft, rockers and so on, you´d better count on an Ironmaiden to avoid damages, i would do that by myself and i will not let it to the shop, also when it comes to the reassembly

i would leave the checking and machining to the machinist shop; let them do what they know how to do, honing, surfacing the head and block;

ask them to give you the parts back and do the rest by yourself

the only super strong torque is that of the cranckshaft nut 400N.m that is a monster



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emove oil bar


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as @stphers mentioned, set the eccentric so that you get the maximium gap


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place tool

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free


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even so...


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you must really go tight, as the central supports of the cam are really big and hit the rockers



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done


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once the machine shop finishes

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plan back...

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.
 
ol pumpen,...

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more...

together with sun dry

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new seal including new bolts

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get a goetze head gasket...

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timming set:

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here:

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and precheck of 1st piston at TDC

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bell removed, no window check

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I enjoyed my engine rebuild project very much - and I see it as similar to your goals of having ability to do a lot yourself and farm out the machining expertise etc to others. Since you’ve been burning oil, obviously the head needs rebuilding (and possibly rings also) and opportunity for a 284 cam.

This is also an opportunity to upgrade the block with a cylinder hone/bore and high compression pistons. I had mine bored for 10:1 pistons, crankshaft polished, rotating assembly weighed and then all assembled into the block. I did the rest of the assembly.

Then you would likely get your 180hp goal.

Disassembly is quick and easy, assembly requires care and concentration but is immensely rewarding.
Steve - would be really curious where yours would peak out on a dyno. with 10:1 and a 284 ... along with the triples, i would think you would be somewhere around 225+ <wild-ass guess>
 
Erik, I would think that with all the work you are doing to the body that it makes sense to do at least a sympathetic rebuild.

I felt my engine was in reasonable condition, and upon disassembly in my home shop I was surprised to find the bearings in very good shape, but the head (previously replaced) was tired.

I took the head to the machine shop and had them do the dis-assembly, surface and valve grind and also install the re-ground camshaft and re-assemble with new guides, springs and rockers. I also had them bore for a set of piano top pistons, although I could certainly have kept the stock bore and simply honed it to install new rings. The crankshaft was in very good shape, and the block needed to be decked (ground).

All in the machine work was about $2,800, the parts cost was inflated by the decision to purchase new rocker arms and valve springs. I was able to source some items NOS from eBay.

The work that @Stevehose was doing was a useful guide and his advice through PM was helpful too. Between questions on the forum, the autobook and Hayes manual and Blue Book I had the confidence to do the work myself.
 
disassembly is easy, except head elements;
Fortunately Don handled that for me, I didn't want to mess it up by not having the proper specific tools as seen in your pics. I had the machine shop assemble the rings/pistons, rods, and crank into the block, I didn't want to mess with that either, and if something let loose then it would be on them.
 
Ok, great inputs.
A few practical questions come to mind:

When hoisting the engine out, I think it would be easier to do it without the automatic box. If i unscrew the box from the engine, it will only hang by the single rubber mount in the rear. How do I support it to prevent it from sagging (falling) down at the front? Can I just support it with a wooden block under the (flimsy thin) oil pan of the auto box?

Dear @deQuincey ; I think I'll build an Iron maiden just like yours. Would you mind getting me some dimensions?
 
After the head I would just remove the transmission entirely for cleaning and new guibo/csb etc. Then remove the bellhousing. That just leaves the short block and it is super easy to get it out of there.
 
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Is it a stupid combo to want to mate a 284 Schrick and 10.1 pistons to an Automatic?
Power is power isn't it?

I'm planning to change to stick shift , but that may be after driving it for a 1-2 years after building it all up again.
 
Is it a stupid combo to want to mate a 284 Schrick and 10.1 pistons to an Automatic?
Power is power isn't it?

I'm planning to change to stick shift , but that may be after driving it for a 1-2 years after building it all up again.
As you know I swap my automatic to stick shift.

That is a much bigger effort than tuning the motor in any way for the driving behavior of your e9
automatic wrong in that car....

But as well, a 286 cammed 10:1 will give you a nice acceleration....

Think about swap tick shift.

Breiti
 
@Breiti , sure; stick shift is on the whish list. I Already have the Getrag 265 5 speed.

I'm looking for a car that behaves well on 3-4 week long trips through Europe with me & my wife. So plenty of highway & backroads combined. Having enough power for a smooth overtake on a mountain pass is something that I consider essential.
Puling away from traffic light is fun, but not at the top of my whish list.

I think that reaching my target is mainly defined by the power of the engine (well setup engine + carb's + a camshaft upgrade (Still need to check what's in the block and change if needed), gearbox selection (Thus 5spd Getrag? Check; i have it) and matched rear end (3.45 LSD diff? Check; have it also.)

Anything I'm missing on my whish list?
 
Perhaps, is it needed to reach my goals (like 180hp)? What are the benefits?

But if I'm right something like that could be swapped later on. It'll only make my work to get the Zenith carbs setup obsolete, wouldn't it?
 
Perhaps, is it needed to reach my goals (like 180hp)? What are the benefits?

But if I'm right something like that could be swapped later on. It'll only make my work to get the Zenith carbs setup obsolete, wouldn't it?
Absolutley not, but than also there is no need for a high compression and a 286 cam?
180 hp you will get with a well overhauled engine and nice done original carbs .
And they are pretty powerful, I just drove it.
All the rest will increase fuel consumption and reduce comfort.

Breiti
 
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