I wonder if anyone here knows this car?

Manthri Srinath

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I’m considering buying this car. I wonder if anyone here recognizes it. It seems like the owner must have at least visited this forum.

The VIN is 4310255. I think.

And any opinion on the bow in the rear right
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quarter panel? There’s bondo there, although not gooped on. The magnet still sticks. Can’t tell if it’s just sloppy body work, or there’s something more serious going on. Thanks in advance for the help.
 

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Manthri Srinath

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Sorry. I should clarify. The last active owner is not the seller. The car came out of a lien sale. Which is why I’m looking for background on it. Thanks again for any assistance.
 

Markos

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Sorry. I should clarify. The last active owner is not the seller. The car came out of a lien sale. Which is why I’m looking for background on it. Thanks again for any assistance.

I don't see any history for it anywhere. I was initially hung up on what seemed to be a depression, but that is an illusion created by the crooked door handle.

My uninformed but seemingly logical perspective on the "bow"

The bow could be from years of filler from paint job to paint job. Plenty of members have shown the "tree rings" of paint and filler during a bare metal restoration. That area of the car seems to get a lot of filler. My rear arches had 1/4" of filler on them from the shop rebuilding the bent arches with bondo instead of addressing. I can say that the area in question doesn't see a lot of rust.

Check the tail panel for excessive filler near the trunk lock. From the side, glance at the alignment of the aluminum tail panel respective to the tail lights. Check to see if it bows in or if the tails are out of alignment. Look at the trunk for for visible kinks in the floor. If the tail cover is off, you can also check for signs of damange fromt he backside of the panel. One thing about the 1974 5mph bumpers is that they will take a heftier hit without damaging the tail. A hit in the '80's that could total a 1968-1973 US coupe could have left a '74 salvageable. The energy has to go somewhere though. If you think about what would happen if you hit the back of the car, the sides will kink in our bow out. The door alignment will get screwed up so check for signs of door fiddling, or funny door gaps (which is a common issue in general).

Feel the 'fins' that protrude from the rear well down to the trunk floor. They are on the outer edge of the trunk. Feel for bends or kinks. They tend to be covered in a trunk liner, if they are off or easily removed then check them out. I haven't messed with '74 trunk wheel well liners in a year but I recall that they don't come off easily. To the point where I didn't want to pull/break them. If the fin portion comes off easily, take a look. Honestly, if I was spending this much on the car, I would ask the owner if we could remove the whole trunk liner. Given the bow that you spotted, you could and have a body shop PPI it. You can pull the body measurements from the factory "blue books".

Lastly, you can get to it with a scope from the trunk, and examine the back of the panel for visible dents or kinks in the metal. There is a little access hole at the very top of the fender near the c-pillar emblem. It's probably pretty tricky with a '74 given the aforementioned fins that come down from the wheel wells.

Also, you could always just live with it but once you see it you can't unsee it. :D

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Keshav

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Hi Manthri,
There are some extremely knowledgeable guys in your area, ask for someone with know how to come take a look at the car along with you. There’s a lot that a seasoned E9 owner can see and give a fair opinion upon. Don’t let the absolute stunning looks of an E9 make a hasty decision, won’t be the first nor last time that happens (another common disease when seeing an E9).

Keshav
 

Manthri Srinath

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Whoa. That’s a super helpful response. Thanks so much. I didn’t look at the tail area closely. I should have. There’s actually an indentation in the aluminum tail panel to the right of the license plate, and 2-3 deep straight scratches in the bumper. Also, the trunk lock was not installed. The seller is going to do that, of course. Also, the inside panels were actually all loose and easy to remove, side panels included. I know, that’s a lot of flags. I should have been more critical. I’ll look harder when I go look again.

I did take video, but that doesn’t seem to want to load here. Too big. I have a few more pics I’ll attach though.

The bow is more like a divot where the door meets the rear quarter panel. There’s obviously filler on that panel though, at the top. Also some orange peel along the pillar, where it wasn’t properly polished and sanded after the last touch up there.

And Keshav, thanks for the leads. I’ll reach out when I’ve got more data to share. I happen to know someone here who’s a bit of an E9 aficionado, so I’ll talk to him too.

And yes, that last photo Markos posted is the same car. :)
 

Manthri Srinath

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Oh. Photos. Here you go. I’ll try a short video too
 

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Manthri Srinath

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I forgot to mention that the seller owns a body shop, and the car had been brought to him after a front driver’s side collision. Pretty significant sheet metal damage. He showed me the pics. The repair he did is really good. The paint blending also. He spliced in a new front apron from corner to corner, and replaced the left grill and so on.

Also, all the panel and door gaps are really straight and close. I didn’t see any that bothered me. I only caught the bow after an hour and half of test driving and walking around it, looking at things, mostly for rust or rust repair, which I also didn’t see.

I do come from an MGA pedigree, so my expectations in regard to bodywork may be low :)

Okay. Let’s try that shorter video. It ain’t good, but it shows the inside, before I drop the phone.

Uh. No. Can’t attach my video. I’ll upload more pics when I get them.
 

Manthri Srinath

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Actually, here are a bunch of screen grabs from that video. They mostly tell the story. The thing really looks pretty clean. That lock hole looks like it should have some wear on it though. Looks brand new.
 

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teahead

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Looks pretty good.

Maybe it's me, but does it look like the chrome side trim was just taped off/masked instead of removed for the re-paint? I don't like shortcuts, but oh well.

Look behind the fusebox/glovebox doors for rust.

Look at the rear shock towers, front shock towers closely.

Front end damage...were the front inner fender seams re-done to factory specs (spot welds, etc.)?

Check the corners of the rockers. Ask if you (or someone) can remove the rocker covers (few screws).

Would help if you can get it on a lift to really check the underside.
 

Manthri Srinath

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Yup. On the passenger side at some point the passenger side door was repainted with the chrome on. Weird.

Thanks for those tips. I’m going to see if I can enlist the help of an E9 expert to come out and look for the rust and so on.

Here’s a better pic of the bend/bow/divot I was talking about.
 

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dang

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That door/quarter junction needs some close examination. It looks like it was hit there and not straightened correctly. Does everything bend in from a straight line? Glass, trim, etc?
 

Markos

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Yup. On the passenger side at some point the passenger side door was repainted with the chrome on. Weird.

Thanks for those tips. I’m going to see if I can enlist the help of an E9 expert to come out and look for the rust and so on.

Here’s a better pic of the bend/bow/divot I was talking about.

Between the front repair, the clear rear end damage, and the passenger door I would walk away. Keep in mind that the next buyer may not be as forgiving. Kudos to the seller for saving it, but it is far from fixed. If he is a busy guy and thought it was ready to sell, one must ask what shortcuts have been taken. Not a $45K obo car in my opinion.

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Markos

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Here is my car. Also hit from the rear. My tail panel is actually new,/9 nothing trivial. The old bumpers had zero sctructure behind them though, so all the damage went to relatively easy, inexpensive parts. I haven’t triaged my fenders yet but they don’t have a lot of filler. Door gaps are better than some batombiles, but need work. My rear fenders do both have a hip above the wheel wells.

Context for you.
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Manthri Srinath

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I don’t know what you mean by “bend in from a straight line”, but I showed my pictures to my body shop guy, and he said the same thing, that the car was t-boned on the passenger side, and that it wasn’t pulled back right. He did say that they could put it on a frame rack and do that though. He didn’t seem to think it was fatal. More sloppy.
 

Manthri Srinath

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I saw that gas filler door and mentioned it during my inspection, and the seller pulled a gasket in the compartment forward, which actually lined that door up pretty well. I didn’t take an after picture. I dunno if that gasket should be needed to keep it flush, though.

I’ll get some pics of the framework inside the trunk. It actually looks unmolested and original. It’s why I at first assumed that nothing had happened to the rear end. I used to own a 633csi in essentially mint condition with the exception of minor blemishes on the brightwork. I sorta put this indent in that same category, although the bodywork on that car was much straighter than on this.

I’m curious as to what you think a car like this is worth. The defects here are not immediately noticeable to an untrained eye, and don’t really detract from the car as an attractive driver. They disqualify it as a show car though, at least for me. But I don’t show my cars, so that doesn’t matter to me.

Using a subtractive process, taking into account what it would cost to sort out the cosmetic issues (not including that bow), I felt the car was worth a bit less than the advertised price, and the seller agreed. I wonder if I’m still on the high side, though.
 

Markos

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Not fatal by any means, just depends on how much you want to get yourself into. This kind of work just makes you wonder about other potential hidden problems.

I agree. I pulled my jeep straight. Both rear fenders were kinked and the rear doors wouldn’t close properly. That was $500 work on a $1,500 buy back (which I thought was outrageous). It’s not the best starting point. If you have $40K to spend there will be other cars that don’t have a black eye. This car looks nice because the body guy painted it.

This car would look lovely with a sub $10K respray:

 

Manthri Srinath

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I agree. I pulled my jeep straight. Both rear fenders were kinked and the rear doors wouldn’t close properly. That was $500 work on a $1,500 buy back (which I thought was outrageous). It’s not the best starting point. If you have $40K to spend there will be other cars that don’t have a black eye. This car looks nice because the body guy painted it.

This car would look lovely with a sub $10K respray:

I’ve been leery of BaT since I watched that gorgeous Granatrot restomod go for $125K sometime back. Bit rich for me. I saw this car, too. I wonder what the seller wants for it.

I think part of my calculus here is the fact that the front bodywork that the seller did do on this car is really pretty flawless, and he’s prepared to straighten this side work out, assuming it can be done. He wasn’t certain about that, though and we didn’t specifically talk about added cost for that work.

Rear end impact is another matter. I hadn’t seriously contemplated that.
 
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