Installed the Mega Squirt today...

[sfdon]

This on Wayne Killens car with assistance of Peter at CoupeKing..
Peter took the car out for the autotune session and provided space at his shop for the afternoon. David from ecartoys provided the box and the laptop.
First thing that came to my mind is that this is the "Stepford Wife" for a big six idle...
Strangely even and perfect- no variations, just a perfect idle.
Makes me doubt if I will ever buy another AFM, Dinan or Turner chip or a 20 year old ECU from the junkyard.

 

[61porsche]

Don,

Tell us more....

Do you think the processor is just that much better?

Wideband?

Better idle mapping? If logging, what was the idle a/f?

I've long wondered how much todays gas has an effect and how much more it will be a factor for all of us.

 

[sfdon]

Wideband is so exact that the car idles between 12.8 and 12.9 Air/fuel
Variation on idle for rpm was 1-2% [9-18 rpm at 900 rpm idle]
I have never head a bix six engine sound like a v 6 Honda until yesterday

I am sure Wayne will need to do some fine tuning with the auto-tune and setting up his own parameters.

The nice part is that I found both the Dinan anbd Turner chips weren't all that good with the 10/1 engines and with the Schricks and the porting and polishing and the different injectors-

Plus- I have had it with 20 year old AFM"S and ECU's

Cost with the wideband and Megasquirt for parts was 800-900 which is what you would pay for brand new Untunable Parts!

 

[alanmcg]

still more pls

couple more questions:
- what was included for $800-900? new injectors needed? did you convert a motronic, and if so what parts were interchangeable? wiring harness changes? do you know performance/hp difference between ms and other?

i just did the miller maf and war chip conversion to my motronic 1.3, and am similarly impressed with perf, smoothness, and tunability - but have heard ms is even better and allows running bigger injectors.

thks,
alanmcg

 

[sfdon]

I had converted Waynes car last year to Motronic 1.3 with the 179 ecu and harness. Injectors are the 200 cc stock m30b35 units.
Unhappy with the Turner chip and unhappy with the Dinan
Unhappy that there was no ajustability to the air/fuel ratio when running closed loop and really no way to monitor and change the seetings without driving up and down the road while staring at a meter and praying I didn't hit someone or get a ticket.
Dyno time is expensive and takes a lot of time.
This way you log the info and adjust while parked.

 

[61porsche]

How much do you surmise that motronic/ chip was banging up against the 10/1 vs. the 9/1 compression?

 

[Sven]

Megasquirt has an auto-tuning function which is quite handy, as Don says. However, it assumes the spark advance settings for each condition (rpm/load) are dialed in correctly. To do that still requires the dyno time. Unless, you already have a good map from some other source (a translated 179 chip map?). How did you get the spark numbers?

I have also been thinking of using a spark plug pressure sensor input timed with TDC to try and get the spark to find the max. pressure in the 12-14° ATDC. This is a bit spendy and I would still need some dyno time.

 

[matthewp]

any stats from the dino ?

 

[sfdon]

Last 2 dynos done on my last 2 builds were showing two lean at 3750 rpm- one turned out to be a bad WOT switch and the other who knows? I don't want to spend hours of my time and pockets full of money finding out that I am running too lean when wide band 02 sensors have become so cheap. I don't want to run special aftermarket chips with secret fuel and timing maps for that special "Gee- I wonder what it is doing" moment. Every engine I do is different with porting, cams, compression, injectors etc.
Every 2 months or so I end up making another engine and I really, really hate stock 02 sensors that go rich, go lean, go middle of the road constantly when I am trying to tune.
Open loop is the way to tune- so why do I want motronic 1.3 adaptive on a modified engine?

If your fuel map is comstant at high load with low numbers [12's] and you are pinging- time to drop the timing.

 

[Luis A.]

Don,

Pardon my ignorance but is the Megasquirt conversion possible starting fresh from a CSi engine or is it an upgrade to a Motronic upgrade or a later engine?

Thanks.

 

[Sven]

Luis,

In addition to reconfiguring the wiring harness to connect to a different ECU, the biggest task for a CSi is swapping the harmonic balancer on the front of the engine for a later 60-2 tooth type wheel and adding the VR sensor. MS needs this for fuel and spark timing reasons. You can also then delete the cold start injector. You probably also need to add a cold start/idle air valve controlled by MS. I am not sure how the CSI handles this function. Here is a link to an earlier discussions about MS on this forum.

http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3236&highlight=megasquirt

 

[sfdon]

Nice posts Sven! and nice pics.

 

[johanaxelson]

Very interesting to read about this. Mostly news to me.

Looks like it would be simpler to do on my 3.5L with Motronic than a stock CSi engine?

A question for those who have done it, do you experience more PS gain over a chip or do you mostly do this to have better control and for the engine to run smoother?

/Johan

 

[sfdon]

Almost silly how few connections are made to a m30b35.
Throw away the AFM
Connect new wideband
add tube with temp sender at throttlebody
add vacuum line.
The Megasquirt comes with a 55 pin connector.

 

[johanaxelson]

Oh, so most of the modifications Sven did are not needed? I can see why I would not need most of them but not all.

SFDon - Would you mind a PM with a few questions about that?

I will google a bit first for someone who has done it.

/johan

 

[alanmcg]

same questions

pls keep posting instead of pm - i have the same questions - what exactly is needed to do a motronic to megasquirt conversion?

 

[Sven]

There is a company in the US that supplies most MS parts. Here is a link to a unit they have that allows connection via the 55 pin Bosch connector. Don, is this what you used? This would mean you could use most of the harness as is ad Don indicated, with only a few mods.

http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/models.html

 

[61porsche]

MAf and Megasuirt

Alan,

Looks like even less for you if you want to keep the MAF.....

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89516&page=2

From the man who makes them.

I would suggest everyone interested do some research on the first fives site ( Peter Florance) and MYE28 site. ( Ecartoys) the guy Don mentioned. Peter as I understand tunes and sells. Ecartoys certainly does. Both these guys know M30s. Peter from the beginning of Ljet.

At one time, MS was a build it your self. Now they sell completed units too. ( And most of the accessories.)

It seems to me if guys can change a 68 mustang to fuel injection there's hope for us carb guys who want to make the switch or thinking about it.

 

[johanaxelson]

OK, this is what I was wondering about.


Fuel – Added new fuel supply line from the tank and used the old line for the return. Then added an in-tank pre-pump (16 14 1 179 415) with a sending unit (16 14 1 152 266) and main pump (16 14 1 179 232). I Installed an adjustable pressure regulator near the custom built aluminum clamp-on fuel rail (no more short hoses to each injector). The existing fuel rail can probably be used.

- the m30b35 of course has pressure regulator and rail.
- But does the pressure regulator have to be adjustable?
- I guess the existing fuel pump will be OK?


Ignition – I used the 60-2 tooth wheel (at front of engine) & VR sensor (all straight bolt on). You will need to fix the distributor so is does not advance via mechanical or vacuum means. I finally got rid of it and am using a Bosch 3-coil wasted spark pack, again, with some mods the ECU.

- The 60-2 tooth wheel & VR sensor we have.
- Distributor I think is fine also?



Coolant sensor – The CS coolant housing needs an addition coolant sensor for the MS system. You may be able to tap a new port into the housing. I used the newer housing which has room for 3 sensors.

- This we have.



Air temp sensor – I tapped this into the right side of the air intake plenum.

- Seems simple enough to add


O2 sensor – I added a wide band sensor to the front exhaust manifold along with the Innovate LC-1 controller.
A bung was brazed on the rear of the front manifold. I had to trim a small corner off of the heat shield. In the future I would like to add a second WB O2 sensor to the other manifold.

- Seems simple enough to add. I actually already have the O2 sensor in place.



Air measuring – The MAP sensor is built into the MS ECU.
I added a second MAP sensor to compensate for altitude. The great part is that the MAP sensor allows you to use your current D-Jet airbox and bellows to the throttle. This is an elegant solution: you only need to run a vacuum hose from the intake plenum port to the MS ECU box. None of the newer air flow or mass metering is needed.

- This seems to be a bit of an open issue.
- Can we eliminate the MAF completely by adding a MAP?


TPS – MS requires a 0-100% TPS. The CSI version is either open or closed, so will need to be replaced with a newer unit (13 61 1 726 591). You will need to modify the butterfly shaft and build an adaptor plate to fit the existing throttle body. I wanted to maintain the mechanical linkage to the gas pedal. I used a throttle body from a 1976 vintage M30.

- This I think we have?



Cold start fuel valve - deleted. This can be removed from the side of the plenum.
I used this port for connecting to the idle air control valve (Bosch 3-wire type) to the port on the throttle body.
The MS system uses the main injectors to added fuel during starting.
There are various settings for various temperatures at cold starting and transition to operating temp.

- We do have the idle air control valve so it should be OK?


So all in all it seems pretty simple. No major modifications at all really?

I am off to do more reading and googling.

 

[sfdon]

Traveling for the next day guys...

Don