It's time to face the facts....

Dick Steinkamp

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...we aren't BMW's target market anymore.



I really thought BMW would be the one to leapfrog Tesla with an EV driver's car. Obviously not in their game plan.
 

day66

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Wow, that article nails it!

10-15 years ago I wouldn’t have looked past a 3 or 5 series for the family car, last week I bought a Jaguar
 

cicada

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Great article.

I'm reminded of a conversation I had with an old lady in Palm Beach about ten years ago. She said how different things were from when she moved there in the 60s. It all looks the same, but the people, the soul is different. And it is no lesser, no greater, just different -- "It's not my Palm Beach anymore, but I suppose it is someone's Palm Beach..."

Looking at both BMW and Mercedes, I think I can see the same thing. The buyer is starting to change. The aesthetic is different. The impression is different. The author mentions staying at the Ritz-Carlton there in Palm Springs. It was before my time, but people say the same about them -- pre and post-Marriot buyout, they're a very different company. From *THE* standard in luxury, to just another nice hotel. Perhaps Mandarin Oriental or something is more akin to ye olde Ritz. BMW is unique amongst German car companies in that they are a bit more like the Japanese companies where the clientele does a lot of work for them for free, or at least they did. Mercedes never had such people, or if they did, they were chased away by dogmatic puritans. BMW owners always sought to push the envelope, make their car better and better. I mean, look at the variety of E9s on this forum, or the extreme variety of 02s out there. There are similar people out there trying to always develop the ultimate RX7, Supra, GTR, you name it -- figuring out what works and what doesn't. It seems BMW isn't so much after those free-thinking people anymore, rather, it's just an appliance.

In the car world, I suppose this has happened many times. Bentley once upon a time had a storied racing history, then became controlled competition for Rolls Royce... now they are just VW group's attempt at competing with them. The Chrysler and Cadillac buyer of history has moved on to the Germans and Lexus, too. But look at Alfa Romeo, they're nothing like how they were. Land Rover, likewise, some time ago turned their back on the more utilitarian market that underpinned their brand, and now they're just a pretentious SUV company like everybody else. Packard alienated their core customers in the 50s by starting to make these ugly boats, then poof. Just like Brooks Brothers, honestly, alienating their core buyers -- guys who want suits -- by going in the direction some VC guy who doesn't even buy their products wants them to go towards. Lancia perhaps is one of the most tragic stories... look at where they were, and where they are, they look like some Chinese domestic market economy car.

But things change, I guess, and the Maserati buyer of 1970 is more like the 911 buyer now, and the 911 buyer of 1970 is more interested in... Lotus, maybe? Not so sure. It is too bad that it is just so difficult to start a car company now, otherwise you might see some competition from somebody somewhere, rather than pushing for the crowd-pleasing luxobarge trucks of today, just to satisfy the ever voracious appetite of shareholders.
 

Dick Steinkamp

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I began to see the end when BMW started making SUVs. I tried to push that view of BMW out of my head but BMW just kept reinforcing it.

From the article...

"I’ve said that the Tesla Model 3 is the best BMW 3-Series that BMW never built, dynamically."

Too bad for us (perhaps not for BMW) that BMW has decided to go a different direction. There are still a lot of good choices out there, however.
 

cicada

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I began to see the end when BMW started making SUVs. I tried to push that view of BMW out of my head but BMW just kept reinforcing it.

From the article...

"I’ve said that the Tesla Model 3 is the best BMW 3-Series that BMW never built, dynamically."

Too bad for us (perhaps not for BMW) that BMW has decided to go a different direction. There are still a lot of good choices out there, however.
I asked Carl Nelson about his favorite daily-driver BMWs... he told me he and his wife personally drive a 5-series (may have been an M5) of the 80s and a manual X5 diesel. Now that is rare!

Then you have the concept of the Z18. Now *that* is a BMW. But the cowards would never build it. And hey, it's an SUV! Sporty, somewhat utilitarian, and a vehicle! Haha.

I think this article in 1986 signals the pivot: https://www.nytimes.com/1986/07/22/business/bmw-aims-for-older-and-wealthier-buyers.html

It takes a long time to change company culture, though. With a company as large as BMW, probably 20 years or more... you need to wait until everyone who stood for the old ways has died, retired, or otherwise moved on. Look at the company in 1986, and look at it again in 2006. The transition was quite clear by then. Now, it just so happens that they have very avant-garde stylists at the helm, and perhaps corporate thinks that since they emerged from the Bangle years doing well enough, that they can do no wrong...
 

bavbob

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Soap box, apologize in advance.

I could go on for hours that such changes have entered all of life. Technology has taken over medicine to the point that sensitivity has increase but specificity is in the toilet. We get the answer right but with far more testing, cost and patient anxiety. As we hand over decision making to non-MD's the cost will only increase. I take comfort in the fact that I can protect my family from medicine today. Dare I add that despite what you hear, medical malpractice is sooo costly to all of us. The only patients who let me know their profession are the lawyers, why is that? When medical tribunals allow 90% of cases to go to trial while only less than 5% are found for the plaintiff, there is a problem. When was the last time you were right 4.5% of the time and kept your job?
 

Ohmess

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When I first got into BMWs, people would sometimes ask me whether they too should buy one. I would respond: drive one, and if you really connect with the way it feels, then maybe. If not, buy a Toyota. But if you make the connection, then you have to ask your self, are you willing to pay the price. And not just the purchase price, but will you pay for the necessary maintenance? And before you say yes, have you have ever been proud of getting 60,000 miles from a set of tires. If so, forget it. BMWs are made to be maintained, and if you fail to maintain them (or drive them on worn out dangerous tires) they will not treat you well and neither of you will be happy. So, do you like the feel enough to actually make sure the maintenace gets done and the component parts of the car are in good shape? If so, buy one. If not, buy a Toyota.

I recount this story because it captures what BMW is throwing away. The car market is changing, and is moving away from people who like to drive and take driving seriously. Leaders in the industry, supported by governments worldwide, think that the world will be a better place if software rather than people decide what a car does. They are all pulling in this direction.

Unfortunately, in my humble opinion, without that special driving feel that a BMW communicates to its driver, there is no reason to buy a BMW. The clowns who think edgy styling and hip advertising will draw people to the brand are delusional. And self driving BMWs have no market advantage over other cars.
 

Arde

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Self driving BMWs? And what do you do while it self drives? Sudokos?
 

Gazz

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Before you throw in the BMW towel there's the new 2023 M2, one of the very few cars you can still order in manual trans' form. Early reports are that it's the real deal aimed at core enthusiasts.
My last 'real' BMW was a ( manual only ) 2011 1 series M. I had a lot of respect for BMW for producing that car and I loved everything about it except that the harsh ride eventually got to my old bones, so I switched to an AMG C63, the last of the NA V8s.
If you are willing to look elsewhere for a 'connection', then I suggest Toyota's GR and 86 line up. These are enthusiast's cars that won't break your heart or your wallet.

Now - my wife has a new Genesis GV60 and I have to admit, even to myself, that I am enjoying driving it immensely. Woops, there goes my cred'.
 

Arde

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..I loved everything about it except that the harsh ride eventually got to my old bones,..
Ah, a friend got a sports tuned Miata and sold it after a few months as the fillings of his tooth cavities were coming loose. Harsh ride and maybe the remnant frequency matched that of the cavities...
 

vince

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The worst car we've ever owned was a 2013 X5, it was beautiful but it was at the dealer more than in our garage. The only new BMW I like is the M2, now they've ruined the styling on that car too. Our next new car will probably be a Audi wagon.
 

CSteve

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My first new BMW was my last new BMW. A 1971 1600 for the princely sum(no sarcasm) of $3,000. I have owned 10 other 70s BMWs. The rest of our cars have been mostly Subarus. No brainer in the NE. Go forever, cheap to keep on the road, almost as safe as sitting in the living room.
 
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