If only we would get some of this. NOT...... it's only about the money with BMW.
Look what Porsche is doing for it's classic car community.
- Thread starter m5bb
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stphers
Well-Known Member
Porsche figured this out long ago when they did a study back in the nineties when they found out that by the time the cars were off warranty, they were losing over 70% to the aftermarket trade. As cars got older, they loss more and more of the customers. That's when they started to reproduce parts to drive customers back to the dealers Wish BMW would take a good look at this
it also helps that Porsche Classic restores old Porsche cars at a few locations. one is at PCNA in Atlanta. i talked with one of the guys who was on his way to SEMA a few weeks ago ... we were on the same flight to vegas. they get first hand knowledge of what fails and what they really need to create a concours level car
Things like parts and restoration work is great but they've also built a huge society of passionate customers with things like rennsport. It also isn't quite comparable as the 911 in a relatively similar form was built from 65 until 89 with the intro of the 964 and then 993. 10s of thousands made with a huge following and the interchangeable parts from year to year meant that users could easily find decent parts available to keep them on the road and improve them in cases.
MB is just as good in that respect specially considering that MB‘s classic car range is far larger than that of Porsche. Prices aside, they have most of everything one can need for their oldies too.
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This thread is depressing... 
remember 10 years ago (or so - don't remember exactly) when BMW bragged about rebuilding a 2002 from parts on hand. don't think they could do that anymore.
No, but they built the Garmische coupe and restored a South African e12 instead. What a waste of resources that could be spent on parts for vintage BMWs.
And if you talk to the 2002 guys they didn't really do that without sourcing some outside parts. It was BS.
m_thompson
Well-Known Member
A few years ago I went to the Retro Classics Stuttgart show. It was mostly MB with a little Porsche and BMW. One hall was just for parts vendors. I was amazed at variety of parts you could buy directly from MB for just about any classic.
Classic parts customers? What classic parts customers.
Just a general observation that IMO influences brand support.
Average Porsche owners/customers are different from BMW and Audi customers. Any Porsche customer can draw from the manufacturer’s past, thinking of cars from their youth, cars from movies, etc. They went to a new Porsche for a reason, and it isn’t just status.
The average BMW and Audi owner doesn’t have any idea of what BMW’s and Audi’s existed prior to 2010. As far as racing pedigree... IMSA? Nope! Group B Rally? nope!
Average Porsche owners/customers are different from BMW and Audi customers. Any Porsche customer can draw from the manufacturer’s past, thinking of cars from their youth, cars from movies, etc. They went to a new Porsche for a reason, and it isn’t just status.
The average BMW and Audi owner doesn’t have any idea of what BMW’s and Audi’s existed prior to 2010. As far as racing pedigree... IMSA? Nope! Group B Rally? nope!
jmackro
Well-Known Member
Gee, I really don't agree. I can't believe that all the Macan and Cayenne drivers here in Orange County are day dreaming about the Le Mans of yesteryear when heading for the pilates classes.
My sense is that Porsche and Mercedes have worked their brands so that they can charge prices that produce much higher margins than BMW (and just about all other car makers). So Porsche and Mercedes can afford to lose money on their classic operations in order to buff the overall brand.
It is very frustrating, especially given the Quandts still own 50% of the company, and you'd think they might have some connection to history more than other companies. Comparison to Porsche is a little unfair, though, given they only produced a 1 or 2 models for much of what might be thought of as the classics period. And they weren't totally recreating the 911 in some model changes. I don't think BMW has much excuse vs M-B, but we'll see how well M-B does after cutting 10,000 jobs.
Me: "Yeah, I need a couple of parts, and I have the parts numbers."
BMW Classic Certified Parts Guy: "Why don't you let me check those part numbers. Let me have the last seven of your VIN."
Me: "You are not going to find my car that way, can't we just use the part numbers?"
Parts Guy: "I want to make sure they will fit your car. Let's try the last seven of your VIN."
Me: "The VIN for my car only has 7 digits."
Parts Guy: "Well, all cars have 17 digit VINs. So, just given me the last 7 of yours"
Me: "Actually 17 digit VINs were adopted in 1981. My car is older than that."
Parts Guy: "Ok, so give me the last 7 of your VIN."
Me: "If you insist -- 2250002."
Parts Guy: "Yeah, so neither of those parts will fit a Euro e21 323i."
Me: "I don't own a Euro e21 323i."
Parts Guy: "But your VIN says..."
And so it goes. Oh, and this was the BMW Certified Classified location for the Washington, DC area.
i think the high percentage of vintage porsche sports cars still on the road makes a huge difference ... porsche parts have always been expensive.
Macan, Cayenne + Panamera greatly outsell the sports cars by more than 3:1 (september - 4000 (macan / cayenne / panamera) vs. 1200 (911 / boxster / cayman). so we will see if the high percentage of cars sold stay on the road in 10 more years. the non-sports cars don't have the same loyalty.
Macan, Cayenne + Panamera greatly outsell the sports cars by more than 3:1 (september - 4000 (macan / cayenne / panamera) vs. 1200 (911 / boxster / cayman). so we will see if the high percentage of cars sold stay on the road in 10 more years. the non-sports cars don't have the same loyalty.
I wasn’t implying that they are familiar with the racing heritage. They know what a “911” is though. Porsche has a form factor advantage there.
I am willing to bet that most people my age know that there was a red Porsche in the movie “Sixteen Candles”. They might even know that it was a 944, but probably not. How many people know that Claire’s dad drove a 635 CSI in “The Breakfast Club”?
The classic car market at this point in the 21st century is setup for Gen X’ers with buying power to get the 80’s machines that adorned the walls of their bedrooms, dorm rooms, trapper keepers, and lunch boxes. 1980’s BMW’s and Audi’s are cool, but for the most part unremarkable. Neither Magnum PI or Crockett drove these boring cars.
Porsche has many cars within classics since 1960 (356 / 911 / 914 / 930 / 924 / 928 / 944 / 968). most models have variants such as base / S and turbo to add to complexity as well as coupe / cabriolet / speedster / targa .. then you get to the evolution of the watercooloed 911 (short wheelbase / sc / carrera 2 / carrera 4 / 964 / 993)
i think MB's staff downsizing has more to do with declining sales compared to many other brands. they only sold 500k more cars globally than BMW did in 2018