Looking at a 72 3.0 CS

[Aviator]

Hello everyone. Newb here with some questions regarding a 72 3.0 CS for sale for $500. I am driving down there today to see this car. The owner says is basically a parts car as far as he sees it. But he said the interior is in very good shape. And he has receipts going back to the 80's including an engine rebuild. He says the car needs a fuel pump to get running again. And the car turns over. he said it ran good when he last had it running. The car has quite a bit of rust mainly in the front of the car due to sitting outside for five years. but he says it could be fixed. But he doesn't know how bad it would be. If I was to get it, my main concern would be to get it a road worthy machine again. And worry about the body work later. My main question, is it worth $500 even if it truly is a junker? Could I make my money back parting it out if I decide I'm in over my head? Or should I really try to get her back on the road? Thanks for any info. Unfortunately I only have one pic right now.

 

[Malc]

Hello and welcome to the forum
Mechanically the CS is a simple car and easy to fix.
The electrics can be a bit of a headache, but is easy to repair and sort if you take your time.
Carbs can be tempermental, especially if they have gummed up through lack of use,( the same applies to injected cars) however a strip and rebuild can sort that out.
If its carbs it probably has a mechanical fuel pump which can get gummed up and or have a leaking diaphram, easy and cheap to fix. If it has an electric one a good aftermarket replacement is a quick fix.
Brakes can be a problem especially if the car has sat for ages, like any other car, but an overhaul is easy to do,
Just about all service/overhaul parts are available from various sources and things like calipers etc can be rebuilt by specialists if you don't want to do it yourself

The biggest problem is rust and rot, often in hiden areas which only come to the surface late on in the process. genuine panels are avialable, but expensive, Pattern parts, such as floors can be bought, but the quality is all over the place, some you will have improvise and make yourself, some you can get 2nd hand
Check out the rust section here on the site and of course some of the restorations folk have done.
You'll learn a lot by doing it yourself and we can help! Remember you want a safe car to drive around in and structural rot is dangerous!

Finally, yes it's worth $500 even as a parts car, especially if it has a good interior, chrome, and everything basically works.
Where abouts in the world are you because other forum members may be near to you and can help cast an eye over it with you.

HTH
Malc

 

[Aviator]

Thank you Malc! Well I talked the owner down to $350. And I'm now the pround owner of a rust bucket 72 3.0 CS!

The car is on the p.o.s. Uhaul trailer. The jerks told me they had an actual flatbed auto transport in Missoula, MT. I get there and they only had this freaking thing. :x

Ok, obviously a 500 buck car, (that I bargained down to $350). Has some serious issues... The bad. 1. This car has some serious rust issues. 98% is in the front of the car , some around the...you guessed it, shock towers. So, I'm going to have my body man look at it. I'm sure it'll be around 3-5k to repair all the rust. 2. Car does not run. Everything is in tact however, and the motor turns over fine with no weird grinding etc. Owner is positive it's a fuel pump. 3. No rear bumper. 4 No brake fluid in reservoir. ??? 5. Drivers side floor has some pretty bad rust.

The good. 1. $350 2. Have receipts back to 83 while it was in Hollywood CA. One receipt was for an engine rebuild. Interior is amazing with three exceptions. Door panels need new wood trim. Carpet is a bit below average. And tons of buttons I do not understand. 3. Car was $350 4. Car looks like it was a actual Euro car imported for two reasons, one, speedo is kilometers, two, Car has a tag stamped above the steering wheel from CA issuing a vin #. Neither one I'm sure will tell me if it's a actual Euro car. Will the VIN? 4. Most electrical parts work including the reap power windows. 5. Underneath the car looks wonderful with the exception of the drivers side floor pan. All the rubber boots etc. are nice and normal. 6. All glass with the exception of the original windshield is great, slight crack in windshield.

Positive?/Negative? This car is an auto which I'm not sure is good or bad. Please fill me in? How do i tell if this is an actual Euro stat car if that exists. Vin is 2231054

I also own a E46 330ci that I love. Thanks for any info guys.

So that's the jest of it. What do you guys think, part it out, or restore?

 

[Aviator]

One receiipt from 92 had 13410 on the odometer. As it sits here today the Odom shows 13492. I'm sure it's 113492. but some receipts in 83 show 00345???

 

[Malc]

Hi Aviator,
$350 is a steal :shock:
Ok let me try and answer your questions and comments.
Yes it looks like an import to the US, the biggest give away from you pictures is the rear fog light which is a European thing... I don't think they are required in the US even today.

So lots of buttons to play with
Probably you have red, green and yellow push buttons scattered around the dash. usually they are as follows:
red - hazard warning
yellow - rear fog light
green - heater rear window
However your new toy may of been mucked about with so things can change! Plus BMW seemed to change things around every five minutes so expect the unexpected!
THere may be two reset style breakers, these are for the electric windows as BMW had some issues with the windows, they are commonly rated to 8 amps
Some European models had the "fast" wiper speed controlled by a push/pull style switch on the central panel by the gearchange, others by the column stalk, you will just have to play :roll:

As to the odometer reading I suspect that your 1983 receipt is for 100345Kilometers about 63000 miles. thus I suspect if your reading is about 13492 thats another 8500 miles so you have a grand total of 78,000 miles, even if there is an extra 100K Kms in there thats still only around 150,000 miles not bad for a 30+ year old car!

From you photos there is rot in the rear , maybe has taken a knock at sometime on the RHS ( by the fuel filler) and of course the front wings (fenders). That would suggest your going to have to get the front wings off and have a look at the A-pillars.

Wood trim on the doors can be fixed, check out other restorations, especially Steve in Reno who has restored and posted pictures of his restored wood. Gazzol has done some fantastic work in regard to restoring and tweaking an E9

Floor Pan - well you can buy a pattern part which you can trim to fit and then weld in (or get somebody to do it for you)

Rear Bumper - Ask here for one or do the flea bay thing or put on a CSL reproduction fibreglass one (Oh dear I might get shot for saying that )
Metal ones are available - check out Walloth and Nesch Germany as the ultimate BMW parts supplier.
Brakes - Probably rusted lines or knackered calipers, pistons or master cylinder, rebuild, exchange, or new. Maybe just lines. Change the flex hoses while your at it, cheap insurance.

VIN - Contact BMW Mobile Tradition they can tell you about the car and where it was first delivered . Lots of stuff on this site about contacting them, Fax, letter, email, or calling will work.

Windscreen - :roll: That's life. Local Windscreen (or shield) boys can help there.

Part out? restore? Thats up to you
think about the folloing:
Time, space, money, partner (if any) atitude!!!
Personally I have seen worse cases brought back from the dead, my old bucket (yeah, yeah still working on it) included!
Cheers
Malc

 

[Aviator]

Thanks for all the advice Malc. A couple other questions. Do you have any info on the auto gear box? Are they reliable, worth more, etc? And One thing that struck me odd while underneath the car was that after the tranny, the driveline hooked up to what I can only describe as a giant round piece of rubber? The wings will have to be cut off right? Are replacemrnt front wings hard to get/expensive? What color is the car called? The car has two weber carbs. Are they fairly easy to deal with? Thanks.

 

[Malc]

As far as I am aware the Autobox is reliable. As to being worth more..... probably not as manual change cars are more common. That said it's body condition that is the most important factor for value. (see the endless discussions about this on the general forum)
I don't know a lot about automatics,but I have just changed the internal filter and put new fluid in a 1980's Mercedes and the changes are now much better.
The big rubber donut right at the back of the gearbox is a part of the drive train to absorb the instant shock loadings. These are somtimes known as Gilbo's (spelling) and are very common. Lots of car manufacturers use them today. They do "go" eventually so examine closely for cracks, splits etc. Next in line towards the rear is the centre support bearing which is molded into a rubber cushion. This also needs to be checked.

Yes the front wings need to be cut off.
New front wings are available and yes they are expensive.
However if your careful with the removal you can repair them when they are off and reuse them.

The colour looks like fjord blue to my eyes anyway :roll:

The carbs if original will most likely be Zeniths which operate much the same way as Webers. As with any carb it's the setup and adjustment that is critical. Rebuild kits are available if you strip them down.
I don't know that much about Zeniths/Webers but others on this board do so they should be able to help.
Malc

 

[Aviator]

Ok, thanks again Malc. I'll have some more questions soon I'm sure.

 

[Aviator]

Hahaha I can't believe I said it would cost 3-5k for rust reapir in my second post! I was at a body shop today and they were thinking around $20,000. I'll take it to a few more body shops. But the first one I went to, I know would have the car pristine when done. Others may cut corners. And when it comes to this car, you obviously can't. Especially since the towers show rust. I'm sure I'll part this car out. :?

 

[Malc]

Aviator,
thoughts
1.. The shop quoting $20K has to include the labour charges.
2.. Your 3 - 5k is about right for body parts only.
3.. Your right a proper job has to be done.
4.. For $20k you end up with a "new" car with style and panache, what new car can you buy in the US for the same price?
5.. To reduce the cost you could strip the car and take the bodyshell only to the shop.
6.. Point 5 above shows the shop your serious, plus they don't have to store all the bits and then put it back together. - more cost reduction!
7.. The strip and rebuild process would be a good way of learning about the car.
8.. You buy all required panels, remember the shop will charge retail prices as new for them, you can get them cheaper yourself.

OK well thats one way of looking at it :roll:
1.. You could keep it as a spares car and look for another one in better shape.
2.. You could have a go yourself if you have the time and the space.
3.. If you part it out be prepared for a long wait to sell some of the bits, if at all.
finally...
If you do part it out I would be rather interested in the whole interior - seats, door cards, rear shelf covering, the carpets - pictures please
How much including shipping to Scotland? :shock:
Malc

 

[Aviator]

More pics

 

[Aviator]

 

[Aviator]

 

[Malc]

Well she does look a little crusty
but not beyond redemption
Let us know what you decide to do....

 

[Aviator]

Does this list of parts look like enough to get it started? Or too much/too little?

http://www.bmwclassicparts.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=BASK

Is CSI a good parts supplier for the E9?

 

[Aviator]

Hmm here's a used pass side inner fender, he also has a drivers side. $250 a good deal?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1974...ryZ33644QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[G]

Hi Aviator,

You should check out the for sale section on this site. Coupe king selling a rust free tub,for not alot of money.
Good luck
Giorgio

 

[Aviator]

Found a front clip for $3000 shipped. Hum, now I'm thinking about keeping the CS. Somebody talk me out of it. :x

 

[dave v. in nc]

clip clip, here, clip clip there...

Opinions are like anal orifices. Here's mine. I have a 74 with no where near the rust as your fjord car that I had a very reputable resto shop take to bare metal, repair all (tongue in cheek..) rust areas, and do a premium paint job. If I include the price of car and just that work (interior not done yet), I could have bought a dry, western car that probably needed only drivetrain tweaks and maybe minor body/trim work for the same price, maybe in the $20K-22K range.

I have a 72 in about the same shape as yours, that I planned to save from the crusher. Bought a no-rust nose, and outer fenders. The closer and more that I looked, the worse it appeared. Bubbles appearing here and there on the quarters, the hood and rear deck have grad-school bubbles. Under the vinyl in the trunk between the wheel wells, easy access to the diff. Flow thru ventilation in the drivers foot wheel. Bang on the nose with your hand, and a brown/red shower rattles into the front valence and to the ground. Its very sad, as its a complete, original car. The trunk goes thunk. The doors also have the vault-like thunk. If I was a "body guy" it might be worth a try, but to have to PAY someone to do all that would be necessary to make it roadworthy and safe.....

My point, I guess, is that if you have the time, talent, tools, skills, and (still) a considerable amount of money, (and the patience to source the new part$, and usable previously owned good parts, you hope..), then its a very noble endeavor. If you would like to have a usable, safe, enjoyable, coupe in the next 18 months, I would recommend a solid car (or at least carcass) to start with, and keep the Fjord car for parts, especially since your investment to this point may be best used for education. Thats the way I am treating my 72; as a learning experience, and as a parts ho'. And possibly as a passive solar dog house at some point.. Good luck with your decision, whatever it is, and welcome to the e9 cult. I'll let others address the $3K clip. Hope it includes some A-pillar.
Dave V. in western NC

 

[Aviator]

Thank you Dave. I agree that I feel even with a low rust front clip, I'll find out that much more of the body has rust I didn't know about. And that's going to mean more work and money. So, I'm more than likely just going to save up for a nicer one, and keep this one for parts, or sell later. It sure sucks though. You hate to see one of these basically rot away, until I will eventually have to haul it to the junkyard. :cry: