My saga of dealing with the CA DMV on a grey market BMW

[G-Man]

Welcome to CA, now bend over

Here is the latest drama concerning my attempts to register my 81 528i here in CA.

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/bimmerfan02/Gordon E12/

This weekend, I received a letter from the CA DMV regarding registration of my 81 Euro Spec E12 528i.

In the DMV letter, it stated that:
Before registration can be completed, the following items are (is required).
-Certificate of Conformance issued by a laboratory authorized by the CA Air Resources Board (CARB)
-Copy of the documentation showing the modification costs
-Additional fees will be due for license fees based on the modification costs

They told me that my car is a direct import vehicle and since it wasn't registered in CA prior to May 31 1988, is why I need a letter of Certificate of Compliance.

As you may be aware, I bought the Euro spec 528i in Washington state in NOV and brought it back to CA. I went to DMV office in SLO to ask them what I needed to do to register the car. They told me since it's a gray market car, it has to go to the Referee for an inspection and to pass his smog test. I had a new cat, O2 sensor installed, major tune up and took it to the Referee right before XMAS. The referee gave my 528i a very detailed visual inspection to ensure the 528i was in compliance. After the very thorough visual test, it went through the smog test at the referee station and passed in flying colors and the 528i was issued a smog certificate. Since it's a gray market car, the paperwork to transfer the title went to Sacramento. Then this weekend I received the letter from DMV.

Yesterday, I called up DMV and they told me to contact CARB about the certificate of conformance. DMV said they can't do anything regarding registration of my 528i until CARB issues a certificate of conformance. I called up CARB and they told me the car has to go to an independent lab to have them do a test and if I pass, they will issue me a certificate of conformance. I was also informed that this test is very expensive ($2-3K). I explained to CARB that the car recently passed the smog test in DEC at the referee station and was issued a smog certificate and a CA BAR sticker was put on the door frame of the car. I also informed CARB that the car was originally in CA in the early 80's. CARB said once it left CA, it's essentially starting over. I was also told that the car should have never gone to a referee station, DMV gave me wrong info, I should have been directed to go to the testing lab first. The smog referee told me the car was grandfathered into the system since it was originally in CA in the 80's and 90's (it was in the data base that the referee accessed).

They (CARB) didn't want to hear my arguments. They told me that they have the rules in place to dissuade people from bringing in gray market cars to CA. I may have to go back to DMV to request all of my paperwork (they took my WA state title when I submitted my paperwork and smog certificate to the DMV on this car in order to get a CA title) so that I can sell the car out of state if I can't get this issue resolved soon.

Have anyone ever heard of such BS? I did what DMV told me to do and now I may be screwed. Any ideas on how to respond to the DMV or CARB? I'm looking for anyone who's been there, done that in regards to thier experiences in bringing a gray market car into CA from out of state. My E12 has been federalized (both DOT and EPA) but I don't have any DOT/EPA paperwork. The car has been through multiple owners over the past 28 years, so where the paperwork went to, who knows. DOT is not an issue since the car is over 25 years old.

Last week I went to DMV and transferred title on the 85 Euro spec E28 525e that I bought recently in Santa Barbara with no problems. The only difference, the E28 never been registered anywhere but CA (original CA blue plate E28). It was imported into CA at the height of the gray market era in 85 and has been in CA since then. Talk about catch 22.

Now here's an update on my saga.

Here's what the CA CARB Direct Import (grey market) office told me yesterday when I asked some questions.

I won't be giving the lab any money to test my car but I've got lots of out of state buyers who are very interested in it. I tried, it sucks but chalk it up as a lesson learned if you live in CA. CARB doesn't believe American's are a mobile society, they do move occasionally from state to state. They want me to put my 28 year old car through the same the lab tests that a new car has to go through for accreditation to be sold in CA, sorry, my pockets aren't that deep.

I was verbally directed by the DMV clerk in the DMV SLO office to go to the referee, I have nothing in writing telling me that.

Gordon

-----Original Message-----
From: Longhi, Veronica@ARB [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 3:23 PM
To: Parr, Gordon D
Subject: RE: Vehicle Certificate of Conformance

Hi Gordon,

The "grandfather" policy is for grey market vehicles registered in
California prior to the effective date of the California regulation,
June 1 1988. Vehicles registered after that date are required to meet
our lab test requirements. Unfortunately, if the registration is not
continuous (for example, the vehicle leaves the state and comes back at
a later date) the DMV will treat it like a new registration, and
therefore will require a Certificate of Conformance. If you have any
proof and can document the DMV giving you wrong information, then there may be a possibility that ARB can help, depending on the circumstance. Since any letters we write to the DMV regarding grey market vehicles needs to go out through our Public Information Office, please contact them directly for further assistance. They can be reached at 1-800-242-4450, or you can e-mail John Swanton at [email protected].

Thanks,
-Veronica-
_________________
G-Man
85 525e (Euro spec)
81 528iA (Euro spec)
74 2002tii (many mods)
70 E3 2800 (Euro spec) 108K original KM's
3 E30's and a 96 4Runner parts hauler

 

[chicane]

Unreal. Sorry for the hassle but hey...California what do you expect.
I am assuming you have it titled just not registered?

 

[G-Man]

No title, I had to surrender the Washington state title from the previous owner to the DMV when I went to DMV to transfer title. I submitted the title, smog check, proof of insurance, etc... and I was waiting for the new title and CA plates in the mail. I have a temporary registration that expires at the end of April. Then I received a letter this past weekend from DMV saying they won't give me registration and plates until I take my car to an independent lab (at my expense). There is no guarantee that I'll pass the lab test either since it is very stringent (and expensive, they do accreditation tests on new cars sold in CA). I've got a few emails advising me to do a VIN swap but I'd rather sell it to an enthusiast out of state.

G-Man

 

[chicane]

No title, I had to surrender the Washington state title from the previous owner to the DMV when I went to DMV to transfer title. I submitted the title, smog check, proof of insurance, etc... and I was waiting for the new title and CA plates in the mail. I have a temporary registration that expires at the end of April. Then I received a letter this past weekend from DMV saying they won't give me registration and plates until I take my car to an independent lab (at my expense). There is no guarantee that I'll pass the lab test either since it is very stringent (and expensive, they do accreditation tests on new cars sold in CA). I've got a few emails advising me to do a VIN swap but I'd rather sell it to an enthusiast out of state.

G-Man

VIN swap = illegal.
How can they confiscate your title? I could understanding them not registering the car but the title is YOUR proof of ownership. They can't take that away. And how will you sell the car with no title?

I hope you are in contact with the original owner you may need a new title.

 

[G-Man]

I asked DMV about that, they told me to sell it via "bill of sale," and have the new owner apply for a title in their state. Go figure that one out. I'm still scratching my head on that one.

G-Man

 

[OCCoupe]

This is a long shot; but the autoclub has offices with their own test facilities and they are also authorized to do "test only" inspections. For the $75.00 or so dollars they charge, it wouldn't hurt to try them and then go to their registration department to have them register the car. I've had issues similar to this with an out of state car and the autoclub was able to help me. If you are not member, they charge about $65.00 to join. Have you had the car VIN verified?

Mike

 

[dang]

I asked DMV about that, they told me to sell it via "bill of sale," and have the new owner apply for a title in their state. Go figure that one out. I'm still scratching my head on that one.

G-Man

When we sell cars through our business we only provide a bill of sale and a sales receipt. I also bought my last CS with only a bill of sale. It does sound strange but its done all the time.

 

[chicane]

I asked DMV about that, they told me to sell it via "bill of sale," and have the new owner apply for a title in their state. Go figure that one out. I'm still scratching my head on that one.

G-Man

I don't think they have a right to confiscate YOUR Washington title. If they don't want to title it in CA, fine. But they must give you YOUR Washington title back. That is not right. Either get your title back from DMV or ask the original owner for a duplicate title, otherwise you are going to have problems selling the car. My $.02.

 

[OCCoupe]

In California, when the DMV takes your title it is with the intention of returning a new updated California title. When supporting documentation is needed to finalize the title, then the DMV holds the title in suspense, this process is called "title in process" Once the necessary documents are provided, the title will resume process and eventually be drafted. The other way to get your title is to convert it into a "title only". Either way, the DMV has not confiscated your title, it is simply in suspended animation, they will give you a new California title. Many states just re-use the old title.

Mike

 

[chicane]

Umm G-Man are you a dealer, because you are handling a whole lot of Grey Market BMW's?


http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4761&highlight=

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/bimmerfan02/Gordon%20E28/

I picked this 85 Euro spec E28 525e 5 speed last Friday night in Santa Barbara. I found it on the Ventura County Craigslist. I couldn't pass this one up even though I was looking for another E30 to replace the one I totaled in Dec. How often do you come across Euro spec E28? Car came with a huge stack of receipts to include the EPA/DOT paperwork, and original window sticker (in German). I bought it for what the insurance payoff was on my E30, $1.8K. It's an original CA blue plate car, imported into CA at the height of the gray market era, shipped from the dealer in GE direct to the gray market importer in So Cal (I have original window sticker). Since it spent very little time in Germany and the rest of it's life in So Cal, it's rust free. At least the bottlecaps are non TRX which is a good thing. I have some 16" wheels and tires (225/50-16) that came off a 88 M5 that I may install on it.

The polaris clear coat is shot, has leather interior (drivers seat needs help), AC and cruise control is on the option list. This car is a time warp, it is totally stock, unusual brown interior with polaris. Down the road, the side marker lights will come off when it gets repainted. I'll repaint it in polaris. The only accident damage that I can tell is a slight dent in the drivers side rear quarter panel/bumper, you can see in the pics. Seller told me it was a hit and run while parked. It has sun damage, (cracked dash) but I'll take sun damage any day over rust and salt damage.

Don't know what I'll do with it yet. First thing is that the sealed beams are coming off and H1/H4 lights are going on. What I would like to do with the E28 is the traditional Euro look, 7" H1 and 5.75" H4, like this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BMW_525i_E28_01.jpg
Anyone have a set of the E28 Euro light set up for sale to include the grille, headlight buckets? I'm missing the fog lights that go next to the turn signals so that's another thing I need to acquire.

When I breath the high octane fumes, I think of dropping in a M30 3.5L but the voice from the alter of orginality says leave this car alone. I also have the option of pulling the e motor and installing the M20 i motor from my 89 E30 325i parts car. Decisions, decisions, but that's down the road.

I need some feedback from the peanut gallery on suggestions regarding this E28.

Anyone have a spare E28 owners manual? The one that came with the car is in German.

G-Man
91 318i
89 325i (RIP, great parts car)
86 325 (youngest daughters DD)
85 525e Euro spec
81 528i Euro spec
74 2002tii (many mods)
70 E3 2800 Euro spec
96 4Runner (parts hauler)

 

[G-Man]

The 70 E3 Euro spec E3 has been a long term restoration project for me, I bought that one for $300 in LA. Just don't ask how much I put into restoring that one. Only one fan belt on that car. That one was imported into CA in the early 70's, no rust and no federalization was ever done to that one
http://www.coupeking.com/product_id-407.html

I've always wanted a E12, and when Frank Haas put his Euro spec E12 up for sale on the first fives board, I jumped. DMV never told me that I if brought in a Euro spec car from another state, that it would have to go through a lab for a additional testing.

As for the 85 Euro spec E28, I stumbled on to that one while searching Craigslist for a E30 to replace my daughters E30 that I totalled in DEC. My daughter wants a four door and a 5 speed. I couldn't pass it up.
http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4761 It will be my oldest daughters car, she is becoming a BMW enthusiast.

The only one I will probably have for sale is the E12 due to the problems I'm having registering it here in CA. What sucks is that I already started gathering parts for the five speed conversion for the E12. The autotragic has got to go.

G-Man

 

[chicane]

The 70 E3 Euro spec E3 has been a long term restoration project for me, I bought that one for $300 in LA. Just don't ask how much I put into restoring that one. Only one fan belt on that car. That one was imported into CA in the early 70's, no rust and no federalization was ever done to that one
http://www.coupeking.com/product_id-407.html

I've always wanted a E12, and when Frank Haas put his Euro spec E12 up for sale on the first fives board, I jumped. DMV never told me that I if brought in a Euro spec car from another state, that it would have to go through a lab for a additional testing.

As for the 85 Euro spec E28, I stumbled on to that one while searching Craigslist for a E30 to replace my daughters E30 that I totalled in DEC. My daughter wants a four door and a 5 speed. I couldn't pass it up.
http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4761 It will be my oldest daughters car, she is becoming a BMW enthusiast.

The only one I will probably have for sale is the E12 due to the problems I'm having registering it here in CA. What sucks is that I already started gathering parts for the five speed conversion for the E12. The autotragic has got to go.

G-Man

I still don't see why you cannot get your original title back from the DMV.

 

[G-Man]

I received the CA title to my Euro spec E12, no plates have showed up in the mail yet. The title says that my new CA plates will start with 6H. Woo-Hoo! The DMV listened to some common sense for a change. The smog refereee and his boss spoke up in my behalf to the DMV. They told the DMV that my E12 was in CA in the early 80's up into the 90's before it went out of state and was in their (smog referee's) data base.

The great thing about this is that I didn't have to do anything illegal to register the car in CA. I had already contacted one of my friends who lives in Reno if I could register it in NV just in case I can't register it CA. I'll believe it when my plates show up in the mail...

Bottom line, if you live in CA, don't buy a gray market car unless you know for a fact that the car was previously in CA before 1988. If the Euro spec car is 75 or earlier, CA doesn't car because it's smog exempt in CA and anything over 25 years old is DOT exempt. http://www.bayarea02.com/features/importing/index.html

G-Man

 

[chicane]

I received the CA title to my Euro spec E12, no plates have showed up in the mail yet. The title says that my new CA plates will start with 6H. Woo-Hoo! The DMV listened to some common sense for a change. The smog refereee and his boss spoke up in my behalf to the DMV. They told the DMV that my E12 was in CA in the early 80's up into the 90's before it went out of state and was in their (smog referee's) data base.

The great thing about this is that I didn't have to do anything illegal to register the car in CA. I had already contacted one of my friends who lives in Reno if I could register it in NV just in case I can't register it CA. I'll believe it when my plates show up in the mail...

Bottom line, if you live in CA, don't buy a gray market car unless you know for a fact that the car was previously in CA before 1988. If the Euro spec car is 75 or earlier, CA doesn't car because it's smog exempt in CA and anything over 25 years old is DOT exempt. http://www.bayarea02.com/features/importing/index.html

G-Man

So are you going to keep it or sell it?