Necchi sewing machine for leather upholstery

autokunst

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Hello all. Say, I read on another post about a few forum members that have a vintage Necchi sewing machine, and that they were planning on sewing some leather upholstery with it. This is something I've contemplated. But also, I've been keen on getting another sewing machine for some other projects that are similar in "heavy duty" nature, so this sounds doubly good. But I know nothing about these Necchi machines. So I'm wondering if anyone has some sage advice as to:
- which models are appropriate for this type of work
- what qualities or features should I look for, or should I avoid
- any other warnings or celebrations I should be aware of?
- is there a price range that is "reasonable" for a working machine?
- anyone have something they want to part with? I am watching several machines on ebay, but again, I don't know what to look for. I see Mira, Nova, Supernova, several read "BU", some are portable and other are in cabinets. I think I'd prefer the portable model.

I appreciate any advice and knowledge you are willing to share. Thank you!
I think @mulberryworks may have mentioned having some experience in this arena?
 

autokunst

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Sorry to reply to my own post, but I've been looking into this further. I still do not have definitive info. But it seems that the BU refers to models that can do zig-zag stiching, which also leads to decorative stitching I think. I saw some really good discussions about the BU Mira on youtube. And have read that the BU Supernova is the first automatic machine. I am not sure what they mean by "automatic". I like manual things in general - but am not sure how that translates to sewing machines.

I am finding several BU Mira Supernova machines on eBay. Not sure if they have a full compliment of parts and accessories. Still looking...
 

Lenoxx

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I'm no expert. Hopefully somebody who ACTUALLY knows how to sew upholstery will chime in. But here is what I know:

I have 1 Necchi BU, 1 Necchi BU Nova, 1 Pfaff 360, 1 old-school Singer type 15 and 1 newer unit, I forgot which brand but its owned by Juki.

"- which models are appropriate for this type of work"
Pretty much any industrial machine. The most affordable industrial sewing machines are 1950's-1960's vintage. Some examples include:
Juki (Japan) -> Lowest price ive seen is $500 with table and motor. Amazon has some new Juki knockoffs for ~$700.
Necchi (Italy) (BU, BU Nova, Supernova) -> I paid $100 for 2 machines and a vintage sewing table was thrown in for free.
Pfaff (Germany) (model 145, 360, ..) -> Prices range from $100 and up. Pfaff 145 with table and motor $500 and up.

"- what qualities or features should I look for, or should I avoid"
Look for speed, precision, power and durability. Pretty much any industrial machine will work. Retail machines typically lack power and durability. I also like simplicity. Most of the newer machines have too many stitching patterns and functions that I don't need.

--Speed is least important to you and me, but high on the list for mass production. Pfaff is the fastest machine of the bunch.
--Precision is important for a uniform stitch with equal spacing (Necchi stands out)
--Power is important so that you can sew through many layers of leather and foam. (all of the machines are powerful enough. My Necchi Nova has a 1.2 amp motor and my Pfaff has 0.95 amp motor)
--Durability is important because you will be doing a lot of sewing through thick material. Most vintage industrial machines are all metal, including the gears. No Nylon gears like the newer retail machines.

Also, look for a unit with attachments like a walking foot, which keeps the layers from slipping while you sew.
A dual needle machine would be great for a nice french stitch.

"- any other warnings or celebrations I should be aware of?"
Test the machine before buying it. Old sewing machines can have hidden cracks in gears and shafts. A machine should not bind when you rotate the wheel. Rotation should be free and smooth.

"- is there a price range that is "reasonable" for a working machine?"
Based on what I paid: Vintage $50-$100 for working Necchi BU/Nova but not museum quality. $600 for Juki with table and motor; New industrial machines are $800 to $:oops:

"- anyone have something they want to part with? I am watching several machines on ebay, but again, I don't know what to look for. I see Mira, Nova, Supernova, several read "BU", some are portable and other are in cabinets. I think I'd prefer the portable model."
It might cost more to ship one of these than what you would pay to find one locally. Check offerup and craigslist.
You might want to buy a drop-in unit. Cut a hole in a table and then drop it in so that you have work space.
All of the units you mention should work fine. I think they all have metal gears.
Necchi models from old to new: BU -> BU Nova -> Supernova. I don't know about Mira.

That's pretty much everything I know at this point.

Here are some examples for sale:
Juki:
https://offerup.com/item/detail/819479372/
Necchi:
https://offerup.com/item/detail/596552882/
Pfaff:
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/hvo/d/peoria-pfaff-145-industrial-sewing/7050972016.html
 

mulberryworks

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Whew, there's so much to learn at about all the machines out there but I'll hit the highlights.

If you are going to do a lot of leather sewing then it's worth it to get a commercial machine. But I don't think you are and commercial (industrial) machines are large, heavy and expensive. And they mostly do straight stitching. The sturdy, well engineered and built machines from the 50's and 60's can handle leather and sailcloth, but not all day every day like the commercial machines. But even after decades of use, these sturdy home oriented machines will outperform and outlast new machines.
(Some commercial machines have an actual oil pan to keep things constantly lubed, home machines need regular oiling which is why oil loaded plastic gears crept in to make them maintenance free- until they needed repair for broken gears.)

Usually "automatic" means there is some sort of cams for decorative stitching. Some are built in, some have removable cams for a large number of stitches.
Most of the machines you'll be looking at will do both straight and zig-zag, some will have cams. Don't want 'em? don't use 'em. It can be tricky to implement double needle sewing.

Older machines, up to about 1970, tend to be all metal, though there may be a few plastic bits, but not anywhere in the drive train. My first machine is an Italian made Singer 237 for $40 with a table. Like a lot of old machines, it needed cleaning and lubrication but now works well. You can clean with lighter fluid, then only use good sewing machine oil - Blue Creeper works well, but there are many. The Singer isn't as powerful as ones I bought soon after so it doesn't get used.

Singers have a wide range of machines, most were good to very good with a few that are excellent, but even the best pale compared to Necchi, Pfaff or Husqvarna. Elna and Bernina are also good, but on the advice of my mechanical engineer friend who has 6 Necchi, I've rounded up three of them now with a Viking Husqvarna and another Singer that was too cheap to pass up.

Pfaff are good and powerful but tend to be expensive and a bit harder to find. I've never used one.

The early 60's Viking Husqvarna 19E ($65) I have is made with a selectable reduction gear so it has more torque and is better able to handle sail cloth and yes, leather. It also has a 'free arm" which makes doing sleeves easier. Nice machine.

unnamed.png



But, on to the Necchi. In Necchi speak, BU means the machine will do zig-zag, BF is a straight stitch machine. Models in the 40's were just called BU or BF, then they came out with the Nova, about the same but with some improvements. The next model in the 50's is the Mira, a real workhorse. There was a model with a knee lever in an alloy base called the Mira 103 that only has a 0.5 amp motor, but most have the 1.2 amp motor the rest of the Necchi have. Smooth and powerful, it will get the job done.

In 1954 they came out with the SuperNova, the first of which had no cam drive for a host of accessory cams to make decorative stitches but the later ones do. That's the little hatch in the photo below. The design and construction are so beautiful I find it hard to believe they are 15 years older than my Singer 237 which was made in 1969 and looks like it was make 15 years before the Supernova. Solid, smooth and powerful, they are a joy to use.
As far as accessories go, early Necchi are low shank, later ones are high shank. It's not hard to find feet, belts or other accessories on ebay or a good online sewing site. Some people change the motors out to even more powerful ones as the construction is so robust they can handle it.

There are a number of models that are very similar but the all have good bones. Supernova, Supernova Ultra, Nora, Julia, Miranda, Esperia. The later ones are 'improved' Supernova machines, but the improvements are mostly feature refinements that aren't critical so it's better to stick to the early ones. They did make some wild looking models like the Lydia, which is in MOMA, I think, but that's not my cup of tea. Other model names are Lelia, Mirella, Silvia, Julia.

You'll find the prices all across the map, from $40 for a beat up one, to $300 for a well cared for unit with accessories that's been well maintained. I paid $80 for my Supernova Ultra in a nice table that needed a new power cord. (no cams or manual) Not that unusual for cords to be bad, but new ones are available online. All Necchi take standard bobbins and needles, so that's excellent. Necchi didn't make any cheap machines or lesser quality units. Some had less features for a lower price, but the quality is the same.
You can check shopgoodwill.com and see if one comes up there, though they are listed as untested. I paid $26 for shipping my Husqvarna. There's also Facebook Marketplace, Craig's list, Offerup.com and a host of others. Always best to see it in person, some people don't know what they have, much like cars. Frozen ones can be freed up with heat and oil and some time.

The photo below shows a Mira on the left in a custom base with a motor control. The Supernova also has a custom base.
There's a large Facebook group about Necchi that's pretty good. The admin runs a tight ship, there's a long FAQ she wants new members to read if you join so she doesn't spend time answering the same questions over and over.

I'll post some youtube links below of some machine videos.

Mira & Supernova with custom bases by Toby Fitch.jpg


 
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autokunst

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Ian, thank you for the comprehensive input on these beautiful machines. I didn't need another hobby, but I have been pulled into this vintage sewing machine thing quite thoroughly. Between your information and also about a dozen YouTube videos and other web sources I found, I am now approaching expert - ha ha. Not really, but I have learned a lot in a short time. And I now have a 1954 Necchi BU Mira machine heading my way. I did not get to see it in person before, but I saw many pics, and a video of it in operation. It will be a good start into this foray. I'll post pics when I receive and play with it a bit.

I have to say, when I saw the custom cases you posted, that took it up to another level. Very cool/beautiful/functional - machine art!
 

Stevehose

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Learning about these machines is fascinating even though I wouldn’t be able to use one to save my life
 

autokunst

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Learning about these machines is fascinating even though I wouldn’t be able to use one to save my life
I already found the instruction book and the service manual for the machine I have coming. The instruction manual is 117 pages excluding the index. And the service manual is 80 pages. I have a lot of learning to do! I have used sewing machines in the past - standard domestic machines likely from the 60's and 70's. This world of vintage machines "should" be less complicated, more robust, and will likely provide that amazing feel of a really good tool (at least that's what I anticipate).
 

mulberryworks

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Ian, thank you for the comprehensive input on these beautiful machines. I didn't need another hobby, but I have been pulled into this vintage sewing machine thing quite thoroughly. Between your information and also about a dozen YouTube videos and other web sources I found, I am now approaching expert - ha ha. Not really, but I have learned a lot in a short time. And I now have a 1954 Necchi BU Mira machine heading my way. I did not get to see it in person before, but I saw many pics, and a video of it in operation. It will be a good start into this foray. I'll post pics when I receive and play with it a bit.

I have to say, when I saw the custom cases you posted, that took it up to another level. Very cool/beautiful/functional - machine art!

Excellent choice. the Mira does what it was designed to do very well. It is a very capable machine.

If you do determine you really want more low end torque at low speeds for heavy leather, the Mira's external motor (Supernovas have internal motors) make upgrading the motor fairly easy. You may need a new bracket and appropriate controller. I prefer the newer electronic foot pedals to the stock 'carbon wafer' design variable resistor foot pedal.

Simply putting in a larger motor is one way to more torque. The one with the custom case has a servo motor and position sensor so the controller can be set to always stop the needle at the top. Note that the hand wheel has a groove machined in it to allow it to take the round green nylon belt. A super system though it takes a bit of work to get it all together.


Mira & Servo motor with custom base by Toby Fitch.jpg
Mira with upgraded motor.png



When sewing, remember placement is key.jpg
 
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bill

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Learning about these machines is fascinating even though I wouldn’t be able to use one to save my life

Once you learn how to set up the machine, thread the threads, adjust tensions, allow for selvage, etc., it's piece of cake. Also helps to have a wife who is an expert seamstress...
 

autokunst

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Yesterday was an exciting day. The Necchi Mira arrived days sooner than expected. I unboxed it immediately, and that's were the excitement diminished a bit. The sender had set the case/unit on its side in the box, and did not stabilize the machine within the case. There were also no "UP" arrows on the outer box - so who knows how it was oriented during transfer. The sewing machine became a 40lb wrecking ball within its previously mint vintage case. And several parts that project from the machine were scraped right off. That's the sad news.
20200208-54 mira 01.jpg

But the the peripheral parts are totally repairable - no worries there. And I am already working on the case, that will be "not quite as good", but quite salvageable. The machine itself is in absolutely amazing condition. And it still seems to operate just fine - good as new. The build quality of this machine is unbelievable, and the previous owner seemed to care for it very well.
20200208-54 mira 02.jpg20200208-54 mira 03.jpg20200208-54 mira 04.jpg
I even have the original owner's warranty card, purchased on June 30, 1954. I wish I had this much provenance for my car! :cool:
20200208-54 mira 05.jpg


As a note, the seller felt terrible and refunded a good portion of the purchase price. It is a very amenable deal in the end - all parties happy.
 

Mot27cars

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Are either of these any good?
 

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mulberryworks

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Are either of these any good?

The Necchi is a much, much newer machine and doubtless has a number of plastic parts in the drivetrain. It's difficult to know if it's worth messing with, I don't know much about the plastic cased machines. Necchi had to compete with the cheap Japanese machines which eventually drove them out of business (the current Necchi is a rebirth).
The Necchi name got muddled with Elna here in the US as the distributor here could sell both. Then he started getting Japanese made machines with similar sounding names made and sold those along side the real Necchi, for a lower price of course. Necchi took a dim view and pulled his distribution rights. Certainly this machine was not made in Italy.

If your intent is to sew heavy things, the old solid metal machines are a better choice. The black 'Singer' fits into that category, but there are so many black Singers it's hard to tell them apart from a single photo. You can look up the serial number online to see just what model it is, then you've got to search for reviews of that model. I can tell you this, it's a straight stitch machine only, it has a belt instead of the built in motor which is often indicative of a bit better machine. The patent ran out on this class of machine and after WWII the US government gave the plans for it to many countries to help them rebuild so you can find millions of clones of this machine around the world with varying levels of quality.
So, I'd say this one looks good, though it doesn't says Singer on it, the gold badge means it should be a Singer, but I've seen clones with badges there too. Is it good enough to sew leather? No.

Is a Corvair as good as a Porsche? That's about the difference in machine build we are talking about. And Necchi don't cost like Porsches, so I recommend looking for a known good one.
 
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mulberryworks

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Yesterday was an exciting day. The Necchi Mira arrived days sooner than expected. I unboxed it immediately, and that's were the excitement diminished a bit. The sender had set the case/unit on its side in the box, and did not stabilize the machine within the case. There were also no "UP" arrows on the outer box - so who knows how it was oriented during transfer. The sewing machine became a 40lb wrecking ball within its previously mint vintage case. And several parts that project from the machine were scraped right off. That's the sad news.

But the the peripheral parts are totally repairable - no worries there. And I am already working on the case, that will be "not quite as good", but quite salvageable. The machine itself is in absolutely amazing condition. And it still seems to operate just fine - good as new. The build quality of this machine is unbelievable, and the previous owner seemed to care for it very well.

As a note, the seller felt terrible and refunded a good portion of the purchase price. It is a very amenable deal in the end - all parties happy.

Ah, I wish I'd made that point, but you said that the Necchi was already on it's way so I felt the horse was out of the barn. Almost no one gets the packing right. Even with a warning from me, it's difficult to convey to a seller the level of packaging needed to safely get a cast iron lump inside of a rather flimsy 50 year old box safely through the shipping systems. I'm still looking for a replacement upper thread guide for my Viking Husqvarna. I really prefer to double box. Here are two video links on two good examples, though I tend to go even more overboard with stiffeners inside.

 
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