Possible hidden corrosion Question

Larry Louton

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Greetings, from Florida, Going to go see this Bavaria soon, Present owner sent me this picture. Curious question to you is? Near the top of right-rear wheel tub appears to be a welded in oblong section with a brushed in bright blue paint applied by brush, Rotted out Wheel tub? Any explanation of what happened here? Thank you. Larry Louton
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Markos

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Rust mitigation. That area seems more problematic on 2002’s than e3’s. That would rust from driving in the rain, not sitting in the rain. I would keep a close eye on the rest of the front and rear wells, and the outer footwell area of the firewall.
 

adawil2002

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Be sure to remove the spare tire. That trunk gasket looks terrible & the easiest access for water to get in the trunk.

This is a common problem with all 1960-1970s BMWs. It takes some time to adjust the trunk lid to stop the water.
 

CSteve

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Take many more photos, especially on a lift. If you can't get it up in the air walk away. Based on that one photo it could be nasty business underneath. Asking price, details, details? Agree about the trunk gasket. How are the rest of the gaskets, sunroof(almost always a culprit) receipts, history? All essential to a successfuly buy. You probably know this.

Steve
 

Christoph

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Looking into the wheel housing from the outside you will find a welded in panel near the top. Panel and housing form a box for additional stability around the strut tower. Over time dust and humidity get inside but never out. In effect, the wheel housings corrode along the welding line of the stabilising panel. This is very common on E3 and visible only with wheel housing covers removed. You may also take out the rear backrest to inspect the front side of the wheel housings. Rust there would come as no surprise, either.

Above the left rear light it looks quite rusty, too, which is less common than the spot you mentioned. All the boot lining seems to be missing, I wouldn't appreciate that.

Is this a Bavaria at all? The licence plate looks a bit Dutch, it may be not a USA version E3. If you can get the full registration number and the VIN, it might be possible to find some information about the car. The BMW E3 Club, of which I am a member, runs a registry based on VINs, maybe we know it. To be fair, most of the 222000 E3 produced we don't know (yet).

Apart from that, you may follow @Markos ' advice. Also look at the top inner corners of the firewall above the fuse box and behind the glove box.
 

Sean Haas

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Mine had corrosion on both sides in the same location (was aware when I bought it, we adjusted the over-the-phone pre-negotiated price which assumed there were no issues.) Left side was not bad, right side was significantly deteriorated and needed a lot of work, was close to being a structural problem. Repair of both sides was around $1500. Rest of car was completely rust free, this location just traps moisture over time as noted above.

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bavbob

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Those little "dimples" in a horizontal line on the right wheel well also part of a repair? I don' t have my car available, guess they could be spot welds from the factory but I'm thinking no.
 

Larry Louton

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Thank you all for your valued opinions. The vehicle is a 1976 BMW 2500? No Sunroof, A/C or power steering? Listed on the Website Auto Scout 24 for 11,000 Euros. 117,00KM. Shown in the attached photo's are Vin#, Spare tire well and left glovebox. My question to Christoph is about the glove box picture, There appears to be a corrosion stain in the box itself. Is this from a slow leak from windshield water leak or the firewall that was mentioned in previous message. The spare tire well might clean up!
Any more opinions would be appreciated. Larry Louton
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Christoph

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Thank you for the VIN. We did not have the car in our Club's registry, as expected, I must admit. All the VIN says is: 2500, manual, LHD, ECE, Series 3. I did a quick research on the half visible reg. no., it seems an original Dutch car, first registered 22nd April 1976. It has passed the annual technical check and is currently road legal. Power steering may well be, sunroof could be or not, a/c would be an immense surprise.

Your question: Diagnoses from far away tend to be inaccurate. Anyway, rust means there was water. I'd say it came past the windscreen sealing. The rubber may shrink over time and make way just a little around the bottom corners. Even if the top corners of the firewall were badly rotted they'd be very unusual spots for water to come inside.

The third picture I don't like too much. The circular hole in the spare wheel well served as drainage for the primer paint, the bodies were dipped completely in a basin. Four more are in all footwells. The holes were closed after priming by plates with bayonet locks. What we have here I don't know. Furthermore, like nearly all cars in the Netherlands, this 2500 had a trailer hitch retrofitted, the bar painted over black. Cannot think of any other explanation for the piece. The rear of the E3 (E9 as well) is quite soft. Pulling trailers was not something the Munich engineers gave a lot of thoughts to. In short: body structure does not like it.

One good thing. Note the little black plug where sill and A-pillar meet. The car had cavity conservation when new. This surely has slowed down corrosion of some parts.
 

Larry Louton

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Strange how the owner reported to not having power steering but there is a reservoir in this picture of such. Or I have read somewhere on the history of the E3 that in the beginning a ride leveling system available but dropped to make the car more saleable, Pricewise. I am going to the Netherlands on April 10 for a vacation, One of the things I am planning on doing is reviewing this car very closely with all the information provided. I am sorely tempted to purchasing windscreen ,trunk seals and A/C unit before I go,
but need to put my eyes very closely on this car. In three years it will be 50 years old. This car has been living near the ocean all it's life. I saw a old Jaguar fold up on a hoist once.

More for you to see in about 12 days.

Larry Louton
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Christoph

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Congrats on going to the Netherlands, I always like it there. You'll probably see lots of classic Volvos.

The reservoir you show contains brake fluid. Two downward pipes for the brake circuits, non visible, one rearwards for the clutch cylinders (manual cars only), visible. The servo pump reservoir is located further front and near the engine.

You mention the notorious Boge Nivomat. Standard on the 2800 Series 1, it was dropped with the introduction of the Series 2 in spring 1971. The 2800 S 1 was a success, despite most people not liking the Nivomat. In the repair manual you'll find a section of how to remove it completely and replace by something sensible. Another attempt was made in 1973/74, different system, optional. I've never seen one. One of our members told me he has a 1974 car that shows clear traces of a once present levelling system, but all the gear is gone.

Glad you say it yourself: speaking of climate, especially the salty air, the Netherlands are not much nicer to classic cars than the British Isles.
 

HB Chris

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Windscreen seals thru 73 are different from 74 and later, better start searching now they have been unobtainable.
 

Larry Louton

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Cristoph, I am speaking of the reservoir forward and left of the brake fluid reservoir. Round with 6mm nut holding it down.
Locating and purchasing the windscreen seal now reminds me of a friend who wanted a Pre-war Harley so bad that he bought the tail light first then the rest of the bike showed up next. Last I saw of it, Was still in his TV room.
Thank you.

Larry Louton
 

Christoph

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Windscreen seals thru 73 are different from 74 and later, better start searching now they have been unobtainable.
Correct. There are two versions, the one for the wide trim is available about nowhere. Fortunately, the 2500/2800/2.8 L Series 3 retain the narrow trim of all E3 until September 1973. This sealing is available from Stefan Ries:
<https://shopware.bmw-oldtimerteile....mw-baureihe-e3-2500-3-0-si-schmale-leiste-neu>.
See also here: <https://e9coupe.com/forum/threads/73-bavaria-a-restoration-project-of-sorts.38898/#post-336806>. People who have bought them say they fit really well.
 

Larry Louton

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Well, the trip starts Monday, April 10 arriving to a train ride and rental car on April 11. Have to get camera up and into both glove boxes upwards to see windshield lower corners. The damage there is going to set the whole tone for rest of trip. Will then inspect floors, Rear shock towers, General overall condition of vehicle. This vehicle had a MOT inspection last year hence my wondering if this is a good car or not.

Thank you.

Larry Louton
 

Drew Gregg

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Cristoph, I am speaking of the reservoir forward and left of the brake fluid reservoir. Round with 6mm nut holding it down.
Locating and purchasing the windscreen seal now reminds me of a friend who wanted a Pre-war Harley so bad that he bought the tail light first then the rest of the bike showed up next. Last I saw of it, Was still in his TV room.
Thank you.

Larry Louton
Larry--Just like your Harley friend, this car will end up in a garage for many months or years before you get to enjoy it. The are lots of classic BMW's in the Netherlands that will be a better long-term buy than this one. That is, of course, if your hobby is fixing cars or driving them.
 

CSteve

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Larry, at the risk of repeating someone else, some of the best advice our forum members can offer is: Buy the best car you can afford, stretch your wallet as far as you can.
You will save yourself time, money, and grief long term. This car is a crap shoot and the house always wins. Save the train fare, the rental car cost and all the other "add up fast small costs" and put them toward a great/good car you can drive home or off the trailer.

If it takes you six months to find the right car you will be driving it in six, perhaps seven months. As Drew says, it could be months or years before you get to enjoy this car.

And let me add, you will save yourself grief, frustration, and worst of all, possible "Mechanics Leins" and lawsuits. Seriously. All of us have seen cars like this turn into literal nightmares.

Steve
 

Larry Louton

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I wish I could afford to bring your eyesight and and insight with me. I am a retired Master Jaguar Technician who has lived on the Gulf of Mexico since 1987. I looked at seven Jaguar XJ6’s before I bought the one I drive every day.
I will check the windshield and rear windshield with a boroscope for corrosion and entire trunk area by taking the backseat out. I believe that BMW’S and Jaguar’s corrode at the same rate.
My hoist is empty and I’m on a adventure to learn a new car.
 
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