Restoration of '70 2800CS 2270407

Discussion in 'E9 Projects and Restorations' started by mulberryworks, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. mulberryworks

    mulberryworks Active Member Site Donor

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    So, it begins. I haven't rolled Hedwig into the garage quite yet, but I'm declaring my intentions to this little corner of the world on this Friday the 13th. I'll have a parallel thread on my own site that I'll list in the signature when I start those pages up.

    I'll list this restoration thread in my profile page and in my signature to make finding it easier. That's a bit of an issue with so many postings in the Projects & Restorations tab it's hard to find someone's 'restoration thread' out of all the posts they may have made.

    The car has many good points: a great interior that is virtually complete, the body is straight, matching numbers and a 95% complete tool kit, including two red screwdrivers.

    Bad points: rust- right rocker & passenger floor, front and rear glass frame corners, door bottoms. The nose is apparently rust free as it was replaced dash forward at some point because of a fender bender. Further probing is needed. Engine runs, needs new distributor installed due to erratic spark.

    Goals: Fix rust, repaint Chamonix, replace all rubber, upgrade seatbelts & add third brake light at top of rear window, install 5 speed Getrag. Drive.

    From BMW:

    The BMW 2800 CS US VIN 2270407 was manufactured on July 24th, 1970 and delivered on August 25th, 1970 to a company named J.B.S. in Frankfurt/Main, probably for delivery to a US citizen temporarily living in Germany. The original colour was Chamonix, paint code 085.

    Hedwig with tree in Austin 1.jpg
     
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  2. Markos

    Markos Well-Known Procrastinator Staff Member Site Donor $$

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    Subscribed!
     
  3. Gransin

    Gransin Well-Known Member Site Donor

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    Looking forward to follow your restoration! Will you be doing most of the work yourself?
     
  4. teahead

    teahead aka "Rob" Site Donor

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    Is this the car you got in Hawaii? Might be mistaking for a diff car.
     
  5. mulberryworks

    mulberryworks Active Member Site Donor

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    Yes, this is the car I purchased on Maui and shipped to Austin about three years ago. I've been lurking here, researching what it means to own such a car and collecting parts in the meantime.

    I'll be doing virtually all the work myself though I haven't settled on whether I'll be able to spray the topcoat at home or have to rent a bay.
    I have installed a MaxJax lift but have no room for a rotisserie in my one car garage. In fact, the car will be a very tight fit in the garage.
    I'll be making new panels as needed with a bead roller and sheet metal brake. I learned to weld with a Oxy/Acetylene torch, tried a MIG welder and then bought a TIG welder which I love. Lots of power, great control and clean welds.

    Ian
     
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  6. wizzurp

    wizzurp Member

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    Oh man this is going to be fun! Definitely interested in seeing how you do panels from scratch and possibly buying a few from you if you want to duplicate. Took me over a decade to find my car and it's a moldy rotten turd so I've got a LOT of metal to go through.
     
  7. mulberryworks

    mulberryworks Active Member Site Donor

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    I don't have huge amounts of metal to replace, so the fabrication of replacement panels should be relatively easy. He said hopefully.

    The final bits of painting for the house (triggered by window leaks courtesy of Harvey) should be done today, so the day I roll her into the garage is almost at hand.

    It will be a tight fit, I'll have to remove the doors first so I'll be able to easily get into and out of the car while it's on the lift. The nose will just be shy of touching the garage door so a lot of work will be done with the door open. Well, we have a forecast for a warmer than normal winter.

    Ian
     
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  8. mulberryworks

    mulberryworks Active Member Site Donor

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    Well, it's begun. I needed to move my 2800cs into the garage to clear the driveway for the upcoming carport install and it's time to start the restoration.

    The front carb had a sticking float due to an improperly sized gasket I put in when I rebuilt it, so I removed the carb and corrected the issue. I also lubed up the L bracket in the throttle linkage since it had become stiff during the year-long sit in the driveway. I charged the battery and cleared out the garage. All set.

    I knew there was no gas in the lines and so used starter fluid to keep from having to crank for so long to get fuel pulled up to the engine. What I didn't realize until I looked at the video was the connection for the ground strap at the head was dirty and there was quite a bit of resistance resulting in some smoke. I also didn't see that once the fuel started flowing, the pump itself started to leak. Eeek. Fortunately, the smoke and fuel didn't coincide in time and space so there were no flames.

    I was going to disconnect the pump and just use the fuel in the carbs to get the car into the garage, but testing it the next day, there was no fuel leak. I suspect that the membrane had shrunk during the long sit with no fuel and it resumed its normal thickness after absorbing some fuel. Either way, I'll be looking into a new pump. I've read that replacement pumps are not satisfactory. Any suggestions on the best option? I didn't find a conclusive answer in the forum's posts.
    * Now that I've thought about it, a more likely source of the leak is the hose on the pressure side of the pump. I looked but didn't see any leak there when I first shut off the engine, but I will be replacing the hoses as a matter of course so I'll test for leaks and pump pressure when I begin work on the engine.

    Here's a youtube video of the startup. All's well that ends well. I got it moved into the garage with no issues other than a squealing power steering belt.

    The issue with the Pertronix lead being too short was something I only found out when I got the car off the transport truck on its arrival in Austin. The engine mounts are soft and spongey so that might be part of the problem. I've only driven the car a few miles in the time I've been here as I've been on the cusp of starting the restoration for the last 3 years. It would be a simpler failure mode if the wire came off and the car simply wouldn't run, but in this case, the other wire keeps it at rest on the terminal for the resistor and it will start and then immediately shut down as the torque pulls the wire away from the terminal. So it starts, but won't run. It's been 3 years since I faced that failure mode so it took a few more starts than it should for me to remember what was going on.

    Yes, I know the valves need to be adjusted. I literally haven't done anything to this engine except for getting it to run after purchase by adding the Pertronix, cleaning the carbs and changing the fluids. The entire car will come apart now to be cleaned and made better.

    I'll be updating my build thread now that I've actually begun.


    View attachment 46344
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  9. mulberryworks

    mulberryworks Active Member Site Donor

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    I had some time today to do a bit more assessment of my car's condition. The bottom of the right A pillar will need a close look along with the rocker on that side as there is significant corrosion. More important, I had a chance to look under the left front fender through the antenna hole on top and see just what was lying underneath. Nothing shocking, but enough deterioration that both front fenders will need to come off to renew the surfaces. I was hoping I could avoid fender removal but it's for the best.

    Ian
     
  10. mulberryworks

    mulberryworks Active Member Site Donor

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    Off with her head! er, wings....

    Sometimes it takes a moment of clarity to see what's right before your eyes. I was sitting in the passenger's seat trying to wrap my head around the enormous task of restoration that lies before me when my eyes fell on the gap between the front fender and the body. Gap? What is that?

    So it seems that when bodywork after a front end collision was done at some point in the past, the fenders were replaced and they didn't bother to attach the fenders along the seam ahead of the door since it would be hidden for the most part by the door. In spite of not having any real paint prep on the raw edge of the fenders, there doesn't seem to be any corrosion, so it seems their bet paid off.

    If anyone has their doors off and can snap a few shots of what the fender to body connection should look like, I'd appreciate it.

    Ian

    IMG_0086-middle-fender-to-body-fit.jpg IMG_0095-Lower-fender-to-body-fit.jpg IMG_0082-Upper-fender-to-body-fit.jpg
     
  11. mulberryworks

    mulberryworks Active Member Site Donor

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    So, I decided to see what lay under the odd silver patch at the edge of the trunk opening. Sure, I knew it had to be a hole of some kind, but I wasn't prepared for the extent of the issues I discovered. It seems that there had been an extended period of leakage under the old trunk gasket and someone before the guy I bought the car from did a rather low tech patch up.

    The present gasket seems to be very recent. It's smooth and pliable. But it was stuck down to the body with a pretty sizeable film of 3M weatherstrip adhesive. Sloppy as that was, that in itself isn't much of an issue, but what lay underneath was quite a bit more concerning. There was quite a lot of surface rust under the layer of adhesive so it was obvious there hadn't been any proper prep of the metal surface before gluing down the gasket. As I pulled up more of the gasket, I began to see a lot of the silver tape like the small bit that was sticking out from under the gasket. Uh oh. The metal tape was stuck down with an adhesive similar to that used in duct tape. I hate duct tape. It either gets hard and brittle or gooey and sticky. This was gooey and sticky. Under the tape in several places they had pop riveted some thin sheets of aluminum over holes in the trunk edge. At the forward edge of the trunk opening, there are several inches where there is no steel remaining, only this built up mess of aluminum, tape and glue.

    I haven't managed to pull it all out yet, but I'll obviously be fabricating new metal to repair the parts that have been rusted away. The rear window will have to come out first so it won't happen right away. I thought I knew about all this car's issues, but nope. I suspect that there are still a few surprises yet to find. Oh well, another opportunity to practice my metal skills, eh?

    Ian

    IMG_0441-Patched-trunk-holes.jpg IMG_0470-Amalgam-of-tape,-glue-and-aluminum.jpg IMG_0468-Goo-holding-things-together.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
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  12. paul

    paul Active Member

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    Hi Ian,
    don't know if you have been following my restoration or not........but suggest you remove all panels as you are bound to find lots of rust behind. see thread "72 rotisserie restoration " I have plenty of pics to show what lurks beneath.
    Paul
     
  13. mulberryworks

    mulberryworks Active Member Site Donor

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    Yes, I've been reading your posts. Quite impressive work being done.
    I've decided that I've got to take off the front fenders so I can renew the surfaces underneath. There doesn't seem to be a lot of rust, but I can see that the paint is starting to go, so it's got to be redone. Off they come.
     
  14. mulberryworks

    mulberryworks Active Member Site Donor

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    Further investigation of the trunk gasket lip has revealed the extent of the corrosion. Not good I'm afraid. I should have suspected other shoddy work when I found that one of the horns was a later model that was connected to the stock wire harness with duct tape. Did I mention I hate duct tape?
    It's going to take a while to get the gooey tape residue off the car to allow me to see just where the good margins are. I'll not cut anything out until I have the car body properly braced. No point in introducing weakness and possible distortions until I'm ready to weld in new metal.

    I'm hoping to find a replacement body part from another car but since this is virtually the rear edge of the parcel shelf, I suspect the demand for parcel shelves will have dried up the supply for good trunk lips. And I don't know the failure rate of the trunk lip but I don't think this is a common issue.

    If I can't find a replacement part, it might be possible to modify one from an E3 to fit, but that would require a lot of cutting and bending, then rewelding. It might actually be easier to create it from scratch. I have a bead roller and a lot of patience.....

    Ian

    Left-side-lip-under-seal-P1070563.jpg Trunk-Gasket-Lip-corrosion-&-Bodge-P1070561.jpg
     
  15. autokunst

    autokunst Well-Known Member Site Donor $$

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    I often find that it takes me more time to "decide how" to solve a problem than it does to actually solve it. I think you are right - would likely not be too involved to fabricate this lip with some metal, a bead roller, and some good music. My guess is that it was not this bad when the duct tape was put on - but that made it worse over time. :(
     
  16. paul

    paul Active Member

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    Ian
    I have to say I admire your stamina........looks like a lot of work ahead of you.....good luck. :)
     
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  17. mulberryworks

    mulberryworks Active Member Site Donor

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    Thanks. I know it's going to take a while but I"m in it for the long haul. It took a couple of years to restore my '54 beetle when I had it all apart. If I can get in an hour or two a day, I'll be able to make some real progress. Does browsing the E9 forum count?

    Ian
     
  18. autokunst

    autokunst Well-Known Member Site Donor $$

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    Absolutely! And that's not just my opinion. Per Rob Siegel's advice - yes!!!
     
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  19. Philippe db

    Philippe db Active Member

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    Hi Ian,

    Looking at your these pictures I really feel for you. At the same time I can't but wonder if it is worth going through the trouble restoring cars that are so far gone. Certainly taken in to account that you can buy a nicely restored specimen like the one below for €35K.

    https://www.autoscout24.be/nl/aanbo...5430c6d-92bd-f65b-e053-e250040a1415?cldtidx=4

    After negotiating you probably pick it up for €30K and as mentioned in the add you get enough spare parts that come with it to build a second car with the exception of the body and suspension.

    Sell all of these parts and part out your car also to sell the few good bits you might find and the above E9 will have cost you 20 to 25K. Half of what you will spend restoring your car to perfection.
     
  20. mulberryworks

    mulberryworks Active Member Site Donor

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    Philippe,

    Not everyone enjoys these cars in the same way. Some race them. Some keep them clean enough to win awards at car shows.

    I, along with some mechanical engineer friends, look at cars with issues and don't think to ourselves "Oh no, I have to take the car apart now." No. We think to ourselves "Oh, now I get to take the car apart." It is as utterly foreign to me to pay someone to work on my cars as to buy a car that doesn't need any work.

    Sure, There are points of frustration in a restoration, but those are mere puzzles to be worked out. I like to diagnose and repair things. Metal fabrication and welding are very satisfying. Frankly, I don't do much daily driving these days so restoring my car is the journey. I won't spend near half of what I would spend to buy that car and it's accompanying parts with shipping and I'll have a hoot of a time fixing mine up. Sure, that one's a deal, but not for me. I got my car for a song because of it's issues, not in spite of them.

    Thanks for following along.

    Ian
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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