Tesla may be smoke and mirrors
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/a...ghway.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=johnmbroder&
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/a...ghway.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=johnmbroder&
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Tesla maybe smoke and mirrors
- Thread starter Nicad
- Start date
jmackro
Well-Known Member
Wow, an interesting story. But one that shouldn't be surprising - batteries just aren't that efficient under cold conditions, and accessories like heat do drain power.
It's kind of funny - here's this NYT journalist driving a brand-new, six figure car, and he's sufferring without heat, only able to do 50 mph, while people comfortably speed past him driving $3,000 beaters.
It's kind of funny - here's this NYT journalist driving a brand-new, six figure car, and he's sufferring without heat, only able to do 50 mph, while people comfortably speed past him driving $3,000 beaters.
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rb1971
Well-Known Member
Not too surprising under winter conditions. I've got a couple of friends out here in NorCal with Model S's (and a few before that with roadsters), and they love them as commuter cars. No one has suffered any "range anxiety", but then they all have second cars for long trips.
I personally hope nuke-electric cars (along with more public transport) are the future of commuting to preserve more gas for those of us that are enthusiasts.
I personally hope nuke-electric cars (along with more public transport) are the future of commuting to preserve more gas for those of us that are enthusiasts.
Sums up the electric car movement nicely and shows the waste of money and resources to build the thing. I bet he's glad to be back in his toasty warm upper west side apartment and fair-trade Starbucks clutching his NYT :razz:
Apparently Elon Musk has claimed it is a bunch of lies. He is an interesting character and I am impressed with the Model S, but do think that we will be driving Alberta Oil Sands powered cars for a long, long time.
We will just be paying a Tithe to the Church (Governnment) to pay for our Sins.
We will just be paying a Tithe to the Church (Governnment) to pay for our Sins.
Mike Goble
Well-Known Member
I thought Elon Musk was a men's cologne...
rb1971
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm not sure you can make that judgment until the resources expended on electric and gas/diesel vehicles are at least within several orders of magnitude.
jmackro
Well-Known Member
rb1971: I sincerely hope you are correct, but personally I'm skeptical.
We have been conditioned by ONE technology - microelectronics - which has followed an incredible curve of declining cost/expanding capability. This has led to amazing improvements computation and communication, which in turn has led people to believe that EVERY technology will follow a similar curve. But maybe they all won't. For example, maybe batteries are always going to fail when they get cold.
Good one.
dealhunter0
Well-Known Member
The NYT article was bunk. The author had an agenda and was determined to run the car out of juice before he even started the drive. Checkout the engineers' response. The entire trip was data-logged and lets just say the facts don't support the author's claims.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive
I have one on order. We are buying the cheapest one with the smallest battery, since my wife never drives more than 100 miles in a day, and usually a lot less than that. We have a minivan for long trips.
Most people just don't need the range, particularly those with 60k-100k to spend on a car. They usually have three or more vehicles.
Someone has to be the guinea pig, and it might as well be me. I am attracted by the fact that most of the mass of the car is in the floor, in the batteries, so it has a low cg. Also, the third row seat is big for us. There are basically no three row vehicles that get better than 26mpg highway in real world conditions. The odyssey is rated at 28 and the Q7 TDi at 28 also. An Odyssey with a 2.0 TDI motor and a stick would be great, but no such beast exists.
Cold weather is not an issue here. Hot weather is, so we will see how well the AC works. Car supposed to arrive in May or June, if the company is still in business then. I am surprised no one has bought the company. BMW should, rather than waste billions on the "i" series development.
After reviewing Teslas's rebuttal, I think the reporter for the Times should be fired. I will let you know my experience when I get the car. It can't be as big a lemon as our X5!
Most people just don't need the range, particularly those with 60k-100k to spend on a car. They usually have three or more vehicles.
Someone has to be the guinea pig, and it might as well be me. I am attracted by the fact that most of the mass of the car is in the floor, in the batteries, so it has a low cg. Also, the third row seat is big for us. There are basically no three row vehicles that get better than 26mpg highway in real world conditions. The odyssey is rated at 28 and the Q7 TDi at 28 also. An Odyssey with a 2.0 TDI motor and a stick would be great, but no such beast exists.
Cold weather is not an issue here. Hot weather is, so we will see how well the AC works. Car supposed to arrive in May or June, if the company is still in business then. I am surprised no one has bought the company. BMW should, rather than waste billions on the "i" series development.
After reviewing Teslas's rebuttal, I think the reporter for the Times should be fired. I will let you know my experience when I get the car. It can't be as big a lemon as our X5!
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dealhunter0
Well-Known Member
I don't think you'll be disappointed. They've already become very popular in the Bay Area. There are 3 or 4 in the parking lot everyday at work and everyone here wants one.
Welcome to the future.
Welcome to the future.
I have wanted one since I first saw the S
I willbe watching as more reviews emerge
I willbe watching as more reviews emerge
rb1971
Well-Known Member
Since we probably don't work in the same building, and there are at least that many here, I guess it is pretty popular in the SF area.
My family used to be in the Electric Vehicle business. We made a couple of models in the late 70's in Montreal. The Marathon C-300 (A two seat runabout that looked like a VW thing) and a six wheeled Van called the C360. We also had a Hybrid that made the cover of Motor Trend Magazine (March 1980) with a Kip Stevens body (Son of Brooks Stevens) that was built for Briggs and Stratton. These used lead acid batteries that would first crush you in an accident, then dissolve the remains in acid. ( look 2/3rds down the page)
http://philippe.boursin.perso.sfr.fr/velec/1978.htm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/March-1980-...275S-Zephyr-ES-4-Door-The-Devin-/370497590404
Ultimately like Tesla, we were looking for Government money. Quebec had a history of trying to pick and fund winners (Which ours was not!) Actually most other than Bombardier went nowhere.
Anyway, the Tesla does impress me as a commuter. This fast charge highway will be a system for rich folks though. Imagine the congestion at the charging station during Thanksgiving, a snow storm or Nascar weekend at Charlotte if the masses trade in their F-150s and Accords.
I prefer 4 cycle engines.
http://philippe.boursin.perso.sfr.fr/velec/1978.htm
http://www.ebay.com/itm/March-1980-...275S-Zephyr-ES-4-Door-The-Devin-/370497590404
Ultimately like Tesla, we were looking for Government money. Quebec had a history of trying to pick and fund winners (Which ours was not!) Actually most other than Bombardier went nowhere.
Anyway, the Tesla does impress me as a commuter. This fast charge highway will be a system for rich folks though. Imagine the congestion at the charging station during Thanksgiving, a snow storm or Nascar weekend at Charlotte if the masses trade in their F-150s and Accords.
I prefer 4 cycle engines.
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jmackro
Well-Known Member
Oh, I don't know - I like the Fisker styling. Dump that whimpy electric junk, add a 600+ hp small block Chevy engine, and it begins to develop some appeal. Here's a quote from a story in "Wired":
Bob Lutz, the petrol-blooded ex-GM, Ford and Chrysler exec responsible for some of the most intriguing automobiles to come out in the last three decades (think Viper, Camaro and Volt).... they’ve struck a deal with Fisker to provide decontented “rollers” of the Karma, sans the dinky four-cylinder engine, battery pack and electric motors. In their place, VLP has fitted one beast of a motor: the Corvette ZR1′s supercharged 6.2-liter V8, good for 638 hp and 604 lb-ft of torque.
See http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/01/vlp-destino/ for the whole story.
I agree entirely - Someone has to be the guinea pig, and it might as well be you.craterface said:
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Someone is subsidizing the Guinnea Pig and it might as well be ....
jmackro
Well-Known Member
Yea, thanks for bringing that up. We gasoline burners pay $.184/gallon to the Feds, and an average of $.30 to the State. That $.48/g supposedly goes toward road maintenance, though of course today much of it gets diverted to ???.
So when are you electricity-types going to begin paying your fair share? If EV's ever became mainstream (though the power grid would melt down before that could happen), a comparable fuel tax would certainly be applied. Saddled with a fuel tax, EV's would become even more of a rich man's toy.
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