The value of the coupe

[kasbatts]

While I was browsing the forum the other day I saw the log "nice car for sale" (and it looks great) for US $43500, and the entry in this log from Tri power commenting "good luck with that", well yes good luck, I hope you get every cent your asking for.
Surely high prices like these are only a good thing for us coupe owners, I personally would be rapped to get that sort of money for my car! and while mine is not in the ballpark of the car for sale it is very tidy and "all there" with no parts missing and most bits working, as I type its under going about US $8000 worth of body work by a real craftsman and dont forget the compleat rebuilds of the suspention, brakes, the install of a CR 5 speed and LSD etc,etc,etc
With a very quick add up I would say I've spent on top of the US $ 13000 I paid for the car(fair market price here in NZ) about US $16000 in getting the car up to a level I'm happy with, and still plenty more to be done.
So does all the money I've spent make the car worth US $30k?
NO, sould it? maybe?
Personally I think these cars are way under valued, compair them with a 69-70 Mustang that seem to be enjoying good prices at the moment.
A quick look on E Bay shows me an equivalent cond Mustang to the gold car in the post could be worth about US $40-50k, so why souldent a E9 be worth $40+k
I'm personally a little biased but I think the E9 looks better,handles better,stops better, performance is very similar considering the engine cubes,there a rarer car, there better speced etc,etc
I understand the mustang is a "cult" car and demand and avalability will allways determine what something is worth in the market place, but please guys don't under value your cars if and when you have to sell!

It would be a very interesting exercise to know what you all "consider" your cars to be worth, If you feel inclined post what you think you would sell your car for tomorrow in US $ and put a rateing of what cond its in from 1(poor)----10(premo)
I will be interested on your thoughts!!

I'll start
White 73 3.0csa, converted to inj and 5 speed, cond 6 and I would be looking for about US $18750

I say good luck to the man wanting $43500 the car looks surperb


GO THE COUPE!!!!!

 

[Malc]

Kasbatts,
I'll put in my 2 pence worth, especially from the UK point of view. I had a discussion about this with a friend who is involved in the "classic" trade and this is basically what it's about here.......

Car values can be very "country dependent" hence an early mustang is going to be worth a lot more than a coupe in the USA. In addition a lot of the baby boom (40s and up age group) are buying early Mustangs because they always wanted one when they were 17 but couldn't afford them.

The "cult" value is also a big influence. believe it or not in the UK you will probably get more for a 3000s Ford Capri than a CSL. When the coupe was new you could buy an E-type jag and RS ford escort mk2 and still have change left over, thus the coupe never reached the "masses" until they became unloved rust buckets in the early to mid 80's
Funnily enough the BMW 2002 and all variants are more popular in the UK, mainly I suspect because there are more of them about.

Other vehicles in the UK which have a cult following. I have deliberately left out the ferrari roll royce stuff because it's out of most peoples league.....

Land Rover - the "real" ones! not the modern Disco's and Range Rovers, although early 2 door range rovers are sort after.
Saab - Older 96 and 99's, plus the early 900 especially turbo and convertables
Ford - Escort mark 1 and 2 especially RS and mexico versions, RS 1600 and 1800 mark 2's the holy grail. Any Cosworth, Lotus cortina, Capri especially larger engined versions
Lotus - Seven, Elan and Elite 2+2 Modern ones unloved.
Jag - E-Type, early 150 and 120, Mk2 (Inspector Morse). some XJ6 models, rest cheap as chips.
Rover - P6 especially 3500s and SD1 vitesse, twin plenum, early 90 and 100's (P4) the "Auntie Rover" cars. rest unloved.
British Leyland - Early mini - especially cooper, Morris Minor, Metro 6R4 - Barking car, some Farina's
Subaru - Cheap, popular "chav" car
Citroen - 2cv, any DS, SM for those who love querky expensive cars. The rest of the modern ones loved by kids bolting on body kits.
Fiat - x1/9, 500, anything Abarth, rest dissolved years ago
Lancia - Integrale few around good one very expensive, HPE if you can find one.
Volvo - Early 121 and 122 popular with the classic rally crowd
VW / Audi - Bay window, split window vans commanding insane prices, beetles. Early Golfs especially GTI sort after Early Audi Quattro especially Ur and SWB versions command amazing prices.. rest forgotten
Peugeot - 205 GTI the original hot hatch either 1600 or 1900 - rest rubbish.
MG - Any early / prewar, MGA, MGB reason? good parts back up a UK "baby boomer" thing
Vauxhall / Opel / GM - Manta especially the 400 a homologation special, Carlton / Omega a real wolf in sheeps clothing especially 24 valve, the police loved them, the rest forgotten.
BMW - 2002, Any early M 3 or 5 series, 6series coupe especially M series. 7 series cars end up banger racing. Coupes loved by loonies like me :lol:

The value of your car is what somebody will pay you. Where and how you sell it can make a big difference too. However with the exception of something rare and special you will never get back the time and money you put into a restoration.
Thats why my friend who has a commercial business dealing with classics has to work on modern stuff and do a lot of service and repairs to make ends meet and will only restore cars he will make any money from - right now MGBs. He will restore others, but only to order and money up front.....

Let the arguements begin!
Malc

 

[tripower]

I say good luck to the man wanting $43500 the car looks surperb


GO THE COUPE!!!!!

How much money you spent restoring a car has no bearing on the final value of the car.

People here in the states grew up with cars like the Mustang, it reminds them of their childhood. People didn't grow up with the E9 (I didn't even know BMW made cars until the early eighties I thought they only made motorcycles). The E9 was a very expensive and not readily available car back in the early 70's.

Just the name of that site...I mean cars are not investments. Buy a car because you like it and want to have fun with not because you hope to make some money out of it in a few years.

It's called supply and demand.
The supply is fixed now, so the only variable is the demand. I don't think the demand is there where a fairly average looking CSI is going to garner that kind of cash. An average looking CSL yes but not a CSI. Look at Hemmings or www.sportscarmarket.com (or here) to get an idea of cars like these are going for and you will see that really nice low mileage cars are going for about half that.

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profiles/2006/October/German/index.html
http://www.sportscarmarket.com/profiles/1996/September/German/index.html

 

[Ed G]

COUPE VALUE

You hit the nail on the head. It IS all about demand. As baby boomers here lust for the cars they yearned for in their formative years, prices for such rides are spiraling upward. And to some extent, as our seniors pass on, the rides they had passions for, are no longer appreciating as sharply and in some cases are actually slipping in value. The question then becomes, how many people out there really appreciated all that the coupe offered? Here in the states, perhaps 1 in 25 even knew what a BMW was in the 70's. At that time, it was overshadowed by a confusing mish-mash of American tanks attempting to adjust to high gas prices and emissions regulations. Introduction of affordable pony cars like the Mustang, were impeccably timed. When closely examined, you would think that the coupe was ready to do some serious damage, but in my opinion, poor name recognition and seemingly high price was a serious hinderance to instilling a "gotta have it" status.

So, where is the e9 doing really well? I don't know....I hope someone can tell me. Seems demand is decent on the west coast. Do German baby boomers lust for the e9? Or is the coupe just an interesting also ran there?
Where is the passion/demand for the e9 coming from, or is going to come from? Certainly today's BMW brand might provide some pull through, but I think that is limited.

Brethren from across the pond, your insight is greatly appreciated. From an American standpoint, the e9 was way before it's time. In Europe however, I believe it was an indicative of what the population wanted.....high perfomance and relative economy driven by MANY years of high petrol prices.

 

[CookeD]

I have an opinion on this but it's been said before; the cars in my opinion are way undervalued.

Do yourselves a favor and drive any of the U.S. offerings from that era (that I feel are currently overvalued), and it makes sense-- The E9 is a much nicer car to drive and own. I grew up working on 2-door V8's, and the E9 was a breath of fresh air. Actually, I just sold my '70 AMX that I had since I was a kid because the E9 is such a sweetheart.

And, anyone that says an E9 rusts more than a Plymouth/Dodge or Ford from that era has never taken a Plymouth/Dodge or Ford from that era apart. I've heard it said that people in Seattle tell eveyone else it rains there all the time in an effort to keep people from moving there and messing it up. So, I say to all listening-- The E9 is a horrible rust-bucket. Don't ever buy one.

The way I look at it, I'm into a vintage car for 1/4 - 1/2 the money that would need to be coughed up for a Mustang, Camaro, et al. Yeah, instead of a car that one of my drunk friends cut his teeth on when he was 17, I have a coach-built car that was called "the best car in the world" in '73, all for significantly less money. In my opinion, let the E9 be undervalued; parts stay cheap, and I keep driving it as much as I can.

 

[piezopaul]

Yoa all are exactly right. Early memories have significant impact on our automotive desires as we age. I have a Austin Healey 3000 which I lusted after in my teens. The coupe was the car of my dreams in my 20's. Here's a question. Who's goung to want 60s cars in 15 years when we are no longer the driving force in this market? Maybe nobody. If driving a muscle car doesn't bring back a memory, why do it? They are HORRIBLE to drive. The Healey may go the same way, although driving is fun. The coupes are a little different. There are very few 70s cars worth owning. Not much in the 80s eaither. That may help the value of the coupes as guys in their 30s and 40s age up. Oh heck, just drive em and have fun.-Paul

 

[tripower]

Re: COUPE VALUE

You hit the nail on the head. It IS all about demand. As baby boomers here lust for the cars they yearned for in their formative years, prices for such rides are spiraling upward. And to some extent, as our seniors pass on, the rides they had passions for, are no longer appreciating as sharply and in some cases are actually slipping in value. The question then becomes, how many people out there really appreciated all that the coupe offered? Here in the states, perhaps 1 in 25 even knew what a BMW was in the 70's. At that time, it was overshadowed by a confusing mish-mash of American tanks attempting to adjust to high gas prices and emissions regulations. Introduction of affordable pony cars like the Mustang, were impeccably timed. When closely examined, you would think that the coupe was ready to do some serious damage, but in my opinion, poor name recognition and seemingly high price was a serious hinderance to instilling a "gotta have it" status.

So, where is the e9 doing really well? I don't know....I hope someone can tell me. Seems demand is decent on the west coast. Do German baby boomers lust for the e9? Or is the coupe just an interesting also ran there?
Where is the passion/demand for the e9 coming from, or is going to come from? Certainly today's BMW brand might provide some pull through, but I think that is limited.

Brethren from across the pond, your insight is greatly appreciated. From an American standpoint, the e9 was way before it's time. In Europe however, I believe it was an indicative of what the population wanted.....high perfomance and relative economy driven by MANY years of high petrol prices.

I think the popularity of the BMW brand today is what attracts most people to the E9. That and it's excellent racing history (which is what I believe will spark a resurgence in it's popularity), but the one thing that I think works against it is it's total lack of substantial horsepower. If BMW was selling cars out of the showroom like they were running in the mid 70's European Touring Car Championship these things would easily be going for six figures.

 

[BarryG]

I got my to First,redo. Then KEEP.....

 

[x_atlas0]

As others have said, nobody knows what the car is, so demand will be low. The article proclaiming it one of the sexiest cars of all time was a huge boost, as it brought name recognition. It isn't an iconic car, like the mustang or the 'cuda. Plus, the car cost more than 10k US new, when a new decked out mustang or hemi 'cuda convertable was significantly south of half that. Heck, it was more than some Ferraris of the time. The E9 and the 507 nearly bankrupted BMW.

Heck, it is a bad sign when almost nobody at the dealer knows what the car is, including the older techs. Somebody actually asked me what I had done to my 2002!

The CSLs go for low 40s for a good condition up to the 80s for a concourse car, based on the prices I have seen. I have yet to see a standard CS or CSi go above 30k, and that was a pristine car with less than 20k original miles. (it was quite close, though)

It just isn't an investment car. Granted, I have watched base coupe prices rise about 30% just since I got mine about 2 years ago, which is great for resale, but right now, I can't imagine selling it.

 

[tripower]

The CSLs go for low 40s for a good condition up to the 80s for a concourse car, based on the prices I have seen. I have yet to see a standard CS or CSi go above 30k, and that was a pristine car with less than 20k original miles. (it was quite close, though)

It just isn't an investment car. Granted, I have watched base coupe prices rise about 30% just since I got mine about 2 years ago, which is great for resale, but right now, I can't imagine selling it.

Which is why I said good luck. For 43K that CSI better be mint, all original, with less than 5K original miles and the factory window sticker attached. I can tell you whenever a car (any car) has been repainted that is a minus NOT a plus. An all original car (in great condition) will trump a great resto any day of the week.

 

[kasbatts]

Great thoughts guys, and I agree with you all, so it looks like its up to us looneys to appreciate and keep these great cars in shape, x-AtlasO I now what you meen about nobody nowing what these cars are, I get asked all the time by guys in the BMW club here what the car is!!, My god its probably one of the most iconic cars to come out of Germany!(maybe after the 911, and a few Mercs) but definatly out of BMW.
So as a matter of interest, Malc, whats a really nice CSi worth in the UK at the moment??
And is there any one out there in Germany?? What are the German baby boomers paying for a top cond coupe??

 

[michael]

The German baby boomers are not nearly as passionate about vintage cars as we are here in the states.

My guess is they are all lining up at their local BMW dealers and ordering the new M3.

 

[Malc]

Kasbatts
According to the latest UK "Official" price guide I have
Condition 1, superb , not concours but jst about there
Condition 2, Capable of regular use but will need work to bring hem up to condition 1
Condition 3, Usually need a complete rebuild, might be drivable and have an MOT (legally roadworthy)

CS / CSI Cond 1: £6500 Cond 2: £3250 Cond 3: £1000
CSL Cond 1: £15000, Cond 2: £8000, Cond 3: £3500

Which is why there are a few fake CSLs about :shock:

However that said I have seen private sales asking £12,000 for a csi and £27,000 for a pukka CSL. I don't know if either sold

Note that the prices tend to drop in the winter, last spring and summer the prices were approxiamately £2000 and £3000 pound higher.

Ed G
I go to Germany quite a lot and I think I have only seen one coupe and that was in Koln (Cologne). I did ask why you don't see many older cars on the road there, couple of reasons, comparitvely few folk interested in "old timers" and the TUV vehicle tests are very very strict. Any repairs have to be done to very high standards, thus it just isn't worth repairing older low value cars....

Malc

And finally a 2002tii Cond 1 is worth £5000, makes you think.

 

[tripower]

CS / CSI Cond 1: £6500 Cond 2: £3250 Cond 3: £1000
CSL Cond 1: £15000, Cond 2: £8000, Cond 3: £3500

And the dollar amount is....
CS / CSI Cond 1: $12,563 Cond 2: $6,282 Cond 3: $1,933
CSL Cond 1: $28,992, Cond 2: $15,462, Cond 3: $6,764

Sorry guy but amounts in British Pounds just leave the rest of us scratching our heads.

 

[CookeD]

Not that it matters, but for the CS that's about $6K low in comparison to NADA:

Base Price
$7,750 $13,500 $18,300
TOTAL PRICE $7,750 $13,500 $18,300

...which regarding the high end also specifies:

Note: This value does not represent a "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle *.
* "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle is not driven. It would generally be in a museum or transported in an enclosed trailer to concourse judging and car shows. This type of car would be stored in a climate-regulated facility

This is USD, so no head-scratching.

 

[Avalanche325]

It all depends on what side of the transaction you are on. As someone looking into an E9 purchase, I like the fact that these cars are reasonably priced. As an owner, I am sure everyone wishes that they could sell for $50,000.

It is all about demand. I bought a 66 Mustang fastback for $4500 in 1988. The car was a very good daily driver for 10 years. I sold it for $6600, which was pretty much what it was worth at the time. That car is about $22,000 now. Most of this is thanks to the guys that are liquored up at the Barrett-Jackson auctions paying record prices for muscle cars. Personally, I think it sucks that muscle cars are becoming toys for the rich. I liked watching the BJ auctions when it was the Bugatti and Dusenburg crowd. Watching a guy getting patted on the back because he just paid the world record price for a 1971 Chevelle makes me want to puke. (OMG, I'm ranting! Sorry)

Brands like Studebaker are now losing it core owner group. These were predicted to soar in price years ago, but it never happened. The group looking for early to mid 50s cars is thinning out.

So, luckily, there are still a few reasonable fun classic cars out there.......for now.

 

[ccr2002]

value

Well....it's all been said already...but I think demand will go up and there aren't any cars that one can buy from that era that drive nicer or look cooler. I drove a 246 dino about a week before getting my 3.0 cs and it was a truck in comparison....the daytona wasn't as nice to drive (except the sound and more power)...a mustang, no better....i've been looking for a nice 911s from the era...and we'll have to spend 45-80K for an equally nice low mile original car. It does not drive that much bettter...just different. And as far as price...everyone knows its better to pay up front than start a pricey restoration and still have a car that's not as nice as an orginal in many situations.

Prices will go up.
ccr

 

[mark]

my 2c.

what about the csl bat that sold at auction last year in london for (i recall) something like usd155k (£80k). and the orange csl on ebay for over usd 60k (can't recall exactly). i paid over usd50k equivalent for my csl and would happily do so again.

 

[tripower]

my 2c.

what about the csl bat that sold at auction last year in london for (i recall) something like usd155k (£80k). and the orange csl on ebay for over usd 60k (can't recall exactly). i paid over usd50k equivalent for my csl and would happily do so again.

Ok you paid 50K for a CSL have you ever seen a CSI go for 43K? That is the real question.

 

[BlauMitWeiss]

wow. what a thread...my 2cents

The CS will never reach the value of the Etype or Dino because it is far to easy to keep the car running. swap in an M30A, M30B, S38 or S88, no big deal. The Original M cars such as the E30 M3 or E28 M5 have a better shot at reaching the sky high, sustained value because the engine is exclusive and would not be an M-car without the M engine. Therefore they carry more intrinsic value.

When was the last time you saw an engine on Ebay that would bolt into a Dino or an Etype? Were these engines from another model? Can you choose new bolt-on brakes from another Ferrari or Jaguar? I doubt it.

Secondly, Ferrari and Jaguar do not continue to provide a supply of repair parts. Of course the BMW new spare are aimed at keeping several models running, not the CS exclusively.

WRT the NA Classics, Camaro's Cuda's and the like, they have always sold mor cars in NA and will continue to.