Trying to get my "73 Bavaria Survivor on the road...very Expensive quotes for repairs...advise needed

[‘73 Bav]

I have a terrific 1973 Bavaria survivor that I purchased from the original owner a few years ago. It sat for a few years before I picked it up so the usual stuff needed to be addressed. I had a local shop adjust the dual Zeniths with the plan to rebuild them once I put some miles on the Bav. Not more than a few drives into enjoying the car a major oil leak spung from the front of the car. Further the car smokes a lot when engine braking (rings are bad). I took the car in for an estimate for the oil leak and also asked about replacing the rings. The local BMW shop's owner is older and is well versed in my Bav and actually worked on it in the 80's. He is the only one who can work on the car at his shop, but he is semi/mostly retired. After many months I finally hear that it is not possible to get the parts to rebuild the engine and he suggests that I just fix the oil leak and rebuild the carbs.
Here are some of the estimates:

Rebuild one zenith carb- $760
Engine oil dye and clean- $182
Engine diagnosis- $135
Fuel filter- $148
Front crankshaft seal- $841
Valve adj- $416
Power steering flush and hose replacement- $745

So is it true that one cannot obtain the parts to rebuild an M30? is this the going rate for repairs? I was pretty floored by the prices but perhaps this is the going rate...

My goal is to get it running well and drive it as a survivor, but not sure if the cost to rebuild is worth what the vehicle is worth. Perhaps an engine swap... Its a shame though as the care has Zero rust, never in an accident and is a complete unmodified survivor.

I have had a generous offer from a member in Sacramento (I'm in Chico) to use his garage and knowledge that I will likely take him up on to tackle a fix of two, but will need to get the massive oil leak resolved first.

Thanks for any input, Steve

 

[TedS]

I'm not in charge here but I remember your first post. Why not add this info there?

New member with a 1973 Bavaria Survivor

Hi my name is Steve and I have picked up a one owner 1973 Bavaria from a family friend Named Sharon. Sharon purchased the car from the factory and planned to vacation in Germany and bring the car back, but had to have it driven and shipped to the US, if memory serves. She claims to have ALL of...

e9coupe.com

 

[Stevehose]

Wow so he makes $416 per hour adjusting valves.

 

[‘73 Bav]

I'm not in charge here but I remember your first post. Why not add this info there?

New member with a 1973 Bavaria Survivor

Hi my name is Steve and I have picked up a one owner 1973 Bavaria from a family friend Named Sharon. Sharon purchased the car from the factory and planned to vacation in Germany and bring the car back, but had to have it driven and shipped to the US, if memory serves. She claims to have ALL of...

e9coupe.com

Ast

I'm not in charge here but I remember your first post. Why not add this info there?

New member with a 1973 Bavaria Survivor

Hi my name is Steve and I have picked up a one owner 1973 Bavaria from a family friend Named Sharon. Sharon purchased the car from the factory and planned to vacation in Germany and bring the car back, but had to have it driven and shipped to the US, if memory serves. She claims to have ALL of...

e9coupe.com

Good point, I am new to blogging (I'm 52 and happily missed the social media wave,,Ha) and just don't know how it works. I will try to consolidate or at least be better in the future. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[CSteve]

I believe everything you need is available. Prices may be a bit shocking. But not nearly as shocking as the $148. fuel filter. If it is the common paper filter in a clear plastic housing that goes in front of the carb it is probably available at Advance Auto for the sales tax on that $148. beauty. With change coming back.

Listen to what the lads and lassies have to say here, follow it to the letter, you will be okay. Actually better than okay.

 

[dp]

Man I really need to set up shop back home in CA! NOT so I can charge those kind of prices but so I can help a brother out! Its my habit to point that out to our community at large once in a while, whenever "we" celebrate escalating collector car value it contributes to rising prices to maintain them!!! I know I could get a reflex response or two for saying something I think is pretty obvious, but oh well....anyways with that said....

Cost of parts? I reference rock auto for my guestimates, and recommend places like Mesa Performance in Arizona to get 'em, Mesa is a long time BMW supplier and a Bavaria storehouse of information knowledge, and they have a few parts also

1. Repair kits for the carbs minor, about 25 bucks. Major 100 bucks for each carb.
2. There are people here who will sell you a good bolt-on-and go used set of webber carbs (a popular conversion) for 5-7 bills,
   I'm just one of them but I'd prefer to keep my last couple sets. They work predictably, and thats not arguable
   plus some of those kits use the original air cleaner to keep that under hood one owner appearance....
   after you clean all the old leakage goop out first that is...
3. Front seal. 5 bucks. add 20 to sleeve-repair wear on the nose of the crankshaft
4. PS Hoses usually have to be fabricated using your old fittings, except for the supply hose from your reservoir
   thats not under pressure so its ridiculously-mounted with just pressure/ring clamps.
5. atf-proof rubber for the hoses is ridiculously expensive. Not sure about 750 worth, but that fluid everywhere is just nasty.
6. Ask Jim at Mesa specifically about your hoses.
7. We have several list members in your area and hopefully this post will cause some to surface,
8. congrats on your Bav...and good on you for bringing the probs of old car ownership here!!

 

[Dick Steinkamp]

Not more than a few drives into enjoying the car a major oil leak spung from the front of the car.

If it is a "major oil leak" it should be easy to spot where it is coming from. Cleaning the engine first is a good idea, but I don't know why dye would be needed if it is major

Further the car smokes a lot when engine braking (rings are bad).

Smoke with a trailing throttle down a hill (engine braking) is commonly valve guides or valve guide seals. It could also be the stuck rings from sitting so long. Do a compression/leak down test. Drive it and see if the smoking gets less.

I finally hear that it is not possible to get the parts to rebuild the engine

The engine can be rebuilt but it is pretty expensive (I'd guess $10k+) A more common solution is to swap in a known good M30. Be sure your existing motor is actually bad before doing this.

is this the going rate for repairs?

The repair prices seem quite high to me (but then I'm generally living in the past . In any case a Bavaria is not an expensive car...even fully restored. You will definately be underwater if you have the fixes done by someone you have to pay to do them.

not sure if the cost to rebuild is worth what the vehicle is worth.

It's not, but it's OK to invest more in the car than it is worth if it is special to you or even if it is enjoyable. In general, the old car hobby is not a money maker.

 

[boonies]

Steve, some good advice in the posts above. Some of the maintenance items you listed have a relatively easy learning curve, especially with some of the DIY’s that members here have posted.

There is even a repair manual and other resources on our site here: http://www.e9coupe.com/tech/index.htm.

http://www.e9coupe.com/tech/autobooks/autobooks_manual.pdf

start with the fuel filter and the valve adjustments first, it will give you the confidence to tackle more complicated maintenance as you move forward with your projects!

 

[‘73 Bav]

Man I really need to set up shop back home in CA! NOT so I can charge those kind of prices but so I can help a brother out! Its my habit to point that out to our community at large once in a while, whenever "we" celebrate escalating collector car value it contributes to rising prices to maintain them!!! I know I could get a reflex response or two for saying something I think is pretty obvious, but oh well....anyways with that said....

Cost of parts? I reference rock auto for my guestimates, and recommend places like Mesa Performance in Arizona to get 'em, Mesa is a long time BMW supplier and a Bavaria storehouse of information knowledge, and they have a few parts also

1. Repair kits for the carbs minor, about 25 bucks. Major 100 bucks for each carb.
2. There are people here who will sell you a good bolt-on-and go used set of webber carbs (a popular conversion) for 5-7 bills,
   I'm just one of them but I'd prefer to keep my last couple sets. They work predictably, and thats not arguable
   plus some of those kits use the original air cleaner to keep that under hood one owner appearance....
   after you clean all the old leakage goop out first that is...
3. Front seal. 5 bucks. add 20 to sleeve-repair wear on the nose of the crankshaft
4. PS Hoses usually have to be fabricated using your old fittings, except for the supply hose from your reservoir
   thats not under pressure so its ridiculously-mounted with just pressure/ring clamps.
5. atf-proof rubber for the hoses is ridiculously expensive. Not sure about 750 worth, but that fluid everywhere is just nasty.
6. Ask Jim at Mesa specifically about your hoses.
7. We have several list members in your area and hopefully this post will cause some to surface,
8. congrats on your Bav...and good on you for bringing the probs of old car ownership here!!

Wow, thanks for taking the time to write such a thorough response. This is just the sort of info and advise I was looking for. I will definitely use this info to get the Bav back on the road!

 

[‘73 Bav]

I suppose I should address this to all of the kind responders....thanks so much for the advise. Every bit helps in decision making.

The real issue is if I want to spend the money to fix the oil leak if the engine is not good. I checked the compression and would have to check my notes but I recall all cylinders were within 5psi- which to me is always a good sign. The orig owner states the the car has more than 250k miles (if memory serves) without a major rebuild. The mechanic talks about the smoke being from rings - I believe rings that leak under pressure from engine breaking.

Again, I really have a connection to this car and would love to refresh the mechanics so that I have confidence in the reliability and use the vehicle as a grocery getter and even driving vacations. I have spent many hours lurking prior to joining this forum and appreciate the supportive community that seems so willing to give advise. I too look forward to being able to give back to the community in any way possible.

 

[sfdon]

“ not possible to get the parts to rebuild the engine”

hahaha… yeah right…


$135.00 leakdown test ….

Have them do a leak down test First!!!

No need for valve adjustment, fuel filter, crank seal, carb rebuild, oil dye- NONE OF IT- if rings are shot or valve seals are rotten.


Pay for the knowledge- not for worthless work.

 

[dang]

@'73 Bav, based on what the shop has told you I think you should find a different shop. @shanon might be able to help since he's familiar with that area.

 

[dave v. in nc]

Sounds like he wants to stay retired/semi-retired...some excellent advise above...and welcome to the forum.

 

[coupedegrace]

Forum member @alprada70 makes PS pressure hoses that are very well regarded by the members who have purchased them. If it turns out you do need to replace yours, I'd start with him.

Here's his website: http://www.oilsdesigngroup.com/

Also take a look at the FAQ sections here, super helpful, especially the list of parts vendors.

After that, the DIY section is also really helpful.

Hopefully these resources will help you get it running again at a reasonable outlay.

-Dan

 

[bmw2800cs]

Read SFDon's comments above. You can trust him.

 

[Ohmess]

Hello 73 Bav.

Another thumbs up on listening to Don. He makes a living doing this one car, and generously offers his time here to support the forum.

As to the notion that the parts to rebuild a BMW M30 are not available, think about this. BMW began making the M30 with the e3s and e9s in 1968. They made versions of this engine through the 1970s, through the 1980s and well into the 1990s. Wards awarded the M30 one of the ten best engines of the 20th century. These engines were a workhorse for BMW. They sold thousands of them in the US alone. And if you care for them, they will last a very, very long time. So, does it make sense that there are no parts available for one of the common variations of these engines?

I'm sorry, but it sounds like you are getting bad advice.

And, one of the huge advantages to hanging around here is that most of us have spare parts. Or know where to get them. Identify your problems (following the advice here) and we will help you find what you need. Even if you don't have mechanical experience, you should be able to get the front of your engine really clean and identify the source of your oil leak. And if you see it and don't know how to describe it, take a picture and post it here. We'll help with that too.

 

[Mike Goble]

do a leak down test First!!!

I do one of those first thing every morning. So far I'm within specifications.

 

[CSteve]

Looks like he is trying to pick your pocket.

 

[coupedegrace]

I do one of those first thing every morning. So far I'm within specifications.

Lucky you - sometimes I feel like corrosion and sediment has set in and I might need a repipe. Those ads on TV say it can be done in a day though!

 

[deQuincey]

I have a terrific 1973 Bavaria survivor that I purchased from the original owner a few years ago. It sat for a few years before I picked it up so the usual stuff needed to be addressed. I had a local shop adjust the dual Zeniths with the plan to rebuild them once I put some miles on the Bav. Not more than a few drives into enjoying the car a major oil leak spung from the front of the car. Further the car smokes a lot when engine braking (rings are bad). I took the car in for an estimate for the oil leak and also asked about replacing the rings. The local BMW shop's owner is older and is well versed in my Bav and actually worked on it in the 80's. He is the only one who can work on the car at his shop, but he is semi/mostly retired. After many months I finally hear that it is not possible to get the parts to rebuild the engine and he suggests that I just fix the oil leak and rebuild the carbs.
Here are some of the estimates:

Rebuild one zenith carb- $760
Engine oil dye and clean- $182
Engine diagnosis- $135
Fuel filter- $148
Front crankshaft seal- $841
Valve adj- $416
Power steering flush and hose replacement- $745

So is it true that one cannot obtain the parts to rebuild an M30? is this the going rate for repairs? I was pretty floored by the prices but perhaps this is the going rate...

My goal is to get it running well and drive it as a survivor, but not sure if the cost to rebuild is worth what the vehicle is worth. Perhaps an engine swap... Its a shame though as the care has Zero rust, never in an accident and is a complete unmodified survivor.

I have had a generous offer from a member in Sacramento (I'm in Chico) to use his garage and knowledge that I will likely take him up on to tackle a fix of two, but will need to get the massive oil leak resolved first.

Thanks for any input, Steve

steve,

your bmw shop is about right, it is not possible to get the parts,….from bmw

I.e. pistons are NLA, and many other parts

so is he right ? Well, partially yes, but there are other sources he may not know, so if he is a well versed mechanic in this particular car, you can keep him (if no other alternative) and tell him that you will get the parts, so he concentrates on labour only


on the other hand prices are, ouch,


Rebuild one zenith carb- $760, If properly done, clean, complete disassembly, all gaskets and bits, reassembly and prep., it could be the price to rebuild both zeniths, he could include synchro in the engine if the rest jobs are also done
Engine oil dye and clean- $182, not sure what clean comprises
Engine diagnosis- $135, odd, maybe test leak, …I hope he is not thinking about a computerized diagnosis port or sort of…
Fuel filter- $148, This sounds bad, fuel filter costs 5€, if you still on the mech fuel pump ask for a plastic filter and NOT the alu version
Front crankshaft seal- $841, I think he might have to buy the dynamometric tool for the 420N.m front nut, so he has included it in the price, way expensive, the seal could be 10 to 65€ (This last one if in vitton ), there is some hours involved in this one, but,…
Valve adj- $416, I agree with @Stevehose , provided it will take around 1h to perform this job, here you have an estimate of his hourly rate; but if he plans to change the valve seals too (which he probably should, as per your smoke comments, then…)
Power steering flush and hose replacement- $745, Again a bit out of proportion, but should be detailed by tasks he intend to perform


i do not know how far you are from Don, maybe 200km?
i would recommend send the car to him and get it properly done, Don will tell you exactly what the car needs and will do it perfectly

IMHO from what you described, you should rebuild that engine a super normal thing after those years and I’m

also a bit of personal advice, unrequired so this one is for free, keep the engine and keep the zeniths, you will enjoy a true classic