what to expect?

psychrunner

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This a rather vague question I think, but I am presently having a 1972 3.0 csi restored (hopefully complete by end of August or so). What can I expect in terms of performance, fun factor to drive, etc.? Is the 3.0 merely a great BMW classic, or is it also a great driving car? Any comparisons to other present day Bimmers in terms of feel on the road, handling, power, etc. I am having the Bilstein shocks and sways (from Carl at LaJolla) installed as recommended by many.
Thanks for any feedback.
Randy
 

ScottAndrews

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I can't tell you about the feel of driving one hard, since I have only driven mine home when I bought it, and it is in resto.

However, I have a 635 Euro with an M90 motor. Killer torque, blazing fast.

In 2005, I raced two E9's and a Tii up Pacific Coast Highway from Cambria to Big Sur. (about 75 miles of twisties).

My 635 is FAST, it handles well, and I know it intimately, so on a hard drive we are one.. BUT, even the Euro 635 is heavy compared to an E9. I had these guys in terms of raw power and torque, but they were lighter and much more agile.. Frankly, they pasted my ass... I was happy to have only given them 2 minutes in 75 miles...and that was mosly due to tourist traffic.

Now, mind you, I am no slouch behind the wheel. I have dusted Dinan M6's in the twisites in my beloved Euro (which by comparison to an M6 is light and agile, but 60 Hp down). The M6's (there were two of them) lost about 5 mins in 20 miles, so I guess on balance I kicked their asses, but the E9 and Tii kicked mine.

So, yes, the car is a blast to drive. Consider yourself one of the very lucky ones...

The lesson here is that it is not about power... It is about agility (weight and handling) and driving skill....Your E9 should be a kick in the pants...I strongly suggest you take a driving class.. fastest and easiest performance improvement you can buy...

S
 

Malc

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Here's my comments re old BMW's
I just drove my 1974 BMW 2002tii to work for a change and compared to modern cars...
1.. Noisier, wind, mechanical
2.. Vaguer steering, no power assistance on the 2002
3.. Much more involved
4.. A total hoot comparied to today's jelly mould cars
5.. A different driving style required
6.. No "idiot" driving aids, traction control, ABS,EDS whatever

And most importantly IMHO you finish your drive with a smile on your face :o

Quite agree with Scott, if you can take an advance driving course in your car to get the best out of it, remember you don't have to thrash it to get the best out of it. I once watch Jackie Stewart driving a "normal" car at the speed limit on the freeway (He worked for Ford at the time) and somehow he ended up infront of all the lunatics doing 70 mph
Better do some work
Malc
 

gkb

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e9 performance and handling

I have an almost stock US 1988 M6 (chipped, K& N, 17 inch Michelin PS2, stock suspension) which I drive regularly (like to work today).

My 1973 CS (with a 3.5 motor and triple Webers) might be almost as fast (who knows, subjective), but more importantly handles much better than the M6 - granted the PO (I have only owned it one year) lowered it, has a Korman and Alpina suspension, 16 inch Alpinas, etc. - but it rides like it is on rails (although a bit stiff on Baltimore roads).

Not surprising considering the e9 racing heritage. Now drop an S38 engine in (which someone here in Maryland has done) and things would be even better, but this is a pricey option.

But the answer is - the CS is not just a pretty face.
 

G

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I've logged about 400 miles since completing my stock 3.0cs with the original zeniths...stock springs ,bilsteins, larger sway bar and larger wheels 16 inch...
So I haven't really got a great feel for the car yet and it needs some tweaking in the carb and timing department...first impressions so far...very very smooth straight line cruiser...great visibility ..Ride quality I would compare it with an e34 535i but lighter..I once owned.. but not as powerful......Speed wise ..I'd say lacking in sensation unless your passing other cars..that's how smooth I find her...shifts great goes through all the gears very nicely without any drama ..the 6 cylinder sounds great....
On the twisties I haven't really tested her yet but that's not what I bought it for..I have a Tii.. lowered suspension, gas sport shocks, urethane bushings a real blast for the twisties.. so I doubt the coupe will impress me in that department compared to the Tii......Basically a classic ..And a very relaxed comfortable ride.I feel like a rock star when I drive it..and when I'm at a redtraffic light I have to look straight because everyone around is staring !! 8) Or at least I think they are ! I guess you can set up the coupe to suit your particular driving style..Hopefully Blumax will chime in and give a more thorough write up of what these cars feel like with several different set ups as I'm sure he has tried many different ones over a very long period..........
Cheers
Giorgio
 

Tyler

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Also keep in mind the difference resulting solely from the gearbox. My previous nearly-stock CS had the 5-speed swap, which was great on long hauls, keeping up or passing modern traffic with ease. My current all-stock CSL has the original 4-speed and feels significantly quicker seat-of-the-pants, but once I'm on the freeway doing 90mph, it can get very tiring after awhile. I keep reaching over, trying to shift to the non-existant fifth gear. It's then that I feel the car's true age.

Tyler
'73 CSL Inka
 

blumax

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How does the E-9 feel-fun factor-performance?

Where to start--having been a Coupe owner/care-giver for over 35 continuous years and now with over 500,000 seat miles in Coupes on every conceivable type of roadway, mountain twisties, back roads, dusty conditions so thick I thought I would never get it all out, through most of the far Western US, the majority of the National Parks in the West and mountain roads throughout, the Southwest, the Mid-west, North to Minneapolis, North Dakota, Montana and on and on, Western Canada North to Edmonton, and South of the border to parts of Mexico have all rolled under the wheels of the BLUMAX--remember these cars stock when fitted with most factory options, fueled and ready to roll only weigh 3225+-pounds=1465 Kilos--a light-weight compared to most of todays cars-they are 300-400 pounds less than the 3 series:

Let me try to describe with the following input--starting with an almost new 2800 CS I drove it for 325K miles bone stock with 4 speed, then we planted a 3.0L instead of re-building the 2.8L--the 3.0 L did not have the "soul" of the 2.8 L-so about 40K later the 3.0 was replaced with a stock 3.5L, noticably more torque with same Zenith carbs, then about 5K ago we built a nice 3.5L around a special Hans Herman camshaft and fitted it with twin 38/38 Webers--Hans advised me to be prepared for a major change of character--was he ever right!

To summarize:

1) I haver never tired of mounting up and hitting the trail in BLUMAX-and being blessed by living in a mild climate-am able to do this nearly year-round--was out briefly today for a few miles.
2) Had two other CS's at one time and an M-1 in the garage to choose from-admit that the M-1 got the nod often but BLUMAX was always waiting-so as to avoid getting flat spots on his tires-he and I would spend a day together.
3) when new BLU felt as if carved from one piece--unlike any Detroit iron, new or otherwise that had come along-and more agile than most comparable Euro cars
4) overall performed better than most other cars of the same vintage-with grace-while delivering excellent gas mileage when fuel was leaded and had octane ratings of 96+
5) having replaced all of the bushings and suspension bits in recent months, BLU today feels very taut on the roads-once again like carved from one piece
6) when driven quickly on real twisties it is not as agile as an '02-but most cars of similar vintage could simply not keep pace with a fresh '02 or a CS
7) have driven many other Coupes in varying conditions that have ranged in feel from very nice to down-right like junk!-each having its own personality.
8) today-while still badged as a 2800 CS-BLU, while appearing cosmetically stock-and is-however a far departure mechanically having many desirable upgrades
9) generously admired wherever he goes-even here in jaded SoCal where almost every other car is a "special" vehicle.


Today-BLUMAX has a freshly built 3.5 with Hans Herman cam and twin Weber 38/38's, a 5 speed OD, Carl Nelson springs, beefy sway bars, Bilsteins, 16" staggered Alpinas, 4 wheels all vented, s/s lines, upgraded cooling system, etc. With this set-up it is very firmly planted and nearly as quick as the stock M-1--is more torquey, stronger in 4th at 2500 rpm and up, passing other vehicles at speed is really quick and fun-rarely needing to go beyond 5,000 rpm, smooth and docile on the street unless prodded slightly, lazily tours at 90 or so when given the opportunity-even with 408,000 miles under his drive line.

I imagine some new newbie owners are expecting a "hot-rod" or similar performance set of wheels-but no-they are not-but can be made quick enough to be lots of fun, a high speed tourer with soul, and sound enough to be a very reliable driver, will keep up with most traffic and do so with more elan' than virtually anything else on the road.

Get it, groom it, enhance it, make it as good or better than when new, always give it proper care, respect what it is, and my my suggestion, don't try to make it over to something it was never designed to be unless you are going to commit it to vintage racing, and don't treat it as you would just another car as you will inflict damage whether intending to or not.

JMHO
 

blumax

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How does the E-9 feel-fun factor-performance?

Where to start--having been a Coupe owner/care-giver for over 35 continuous years and now with over 500,000 seat miles in Coupes on every conceivable type of roadway, mountain twisties, back roads, dust so thick I thought I would never get it all out, through most of the far Western US, the majority of the National Parks in the West and mountain roads throughout, the Southwest, the Mid-west and North to Minneapolis, North Dakota, Montana and on and on, Western Canada North to Edmonton, and parts of Mexico have all rolled under the wheels of the BLUMAX--remember these cars stock when fitted with most factory options, fueled and ready to roll only weigh 3225+-pounds=1465 Kilos--a light-weight compared to most of todays cars @ 300-400 pounds less than todays 3 series:
Let me try to describe with the following input--starting with an almost new 2800 CS I drove it for 325K miles bone stock, then planted a 3.0L in place of re-building the 2.8L--the 3.0 L did not have the "soul" of the 2.8 L, about 40K later the 3.0 was replaced with a stock 3.5L, noticably more torque with same Zenith carbs, then about 5K agp we built a nice 3.5L around the special cam and twin 38/38 Webers--Hans advised me to be prepared for a major change of character--was he ever right!

To summarize:

1) I haver never tired of mounting up and hitting the trail in BLUMAX-and being blessed by living in a mild climate-am able to do this nearly year-round--was out briefly today for a few miles.
2) Had two other CS's at one time and an M-1 to choose from-admit that the M-1 got the nod often but BLUMAX was always waiting-so as to avoid getting flat spots on his tires-he and I would spend a day together.
3) when new BLU felt as if carved from one piece--unlike any Detroit iron, new or otherwise-and more agile than most comparable Euro cars
4) overall performed better than most other cars of the same vintage-with grace-while delivering excellent gas mileage when fuel was leaded and had octane ratings of 96+
5) having now replaced all of the bushings and suspension bits, BLU today feels very taut on the roads-like carved from one piece
6) when driven quickly on real twisties it is not as agile as an '02-but most cars of similar vintage could simply not keep pace with a fresh '02 or a CS
7) have driven many other Coupes that have ranged in feel from very nice to down-right dull!-each has its own personality.
8) today-while still badged as a 2800 CS-BLU, while appearing stock is a far departure having many mechanical upgrades
9) generously admired wherever he goes-even here in jaded SoCal where almost every other car is a "special" vehicle.


Today-BLUMAX has a freshly built 3.5 with Hans Herman cam and twin Weber 38/38's, a 5 speed OD, Carl Nelson springs, beefy sway bars, Bilsteins, 16" staggered Alpinas, 4 wheel vented, s/s lines, upgraded cooling system, etc. With this set-up it is very firmly planted and nearly as quick as the stock M-1--is more torquey, strong in 4th at 2500 rpm and up, passing other vehicles at speed is really quick and fun--and rarely necessary to go beyond 5,000 rpm, smooth on the street, lazily tours at 90 or so when given the opportunity-even with 408,000 miles under his drive line.

I imagine some new non-knowledgable owners are expecting a "hot-rod" or similar performance-but no-they are not-but can be made quick enough to be fun, sound enough to be a very reliable driver, will keep up with most traffic and do so with more elan' than virtually anything else on the road.

Get it, groom it, enhance it, make it as good or better than when new, always give it proper care, respect what it is, my suggestion, don't try to make it over to something it was never designed to be unless you are going to commit it to vintage racing, and don't treat it as you would just another car as you will inflict damage whether intending to or not.

JMHO
 

psychrunner

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Thanks......

Thanks all for the feedback re: your impressions of the csi e9. I am excitedly awaiting the completion of the car. The resto shop just sent some pics. In the process of stripping paint and repairing rust/body puttied areas to as close to original as possible. Haven't begun engine work as of yet, but have ordered various parts (e.g., pretronix (sp?) ignition, plugs, wires, etc) from Carl. Will keep original Polaris color.
Thanks again. your comments have heigthend my anticipation for the car.
Randy
 
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