What would you consider.....

acat2002

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What would you consider to be practical daily driver that offers the following:

-Performance, It has to get up and GO, handle well w/4 adults, feel stable/solid and provide ample safety. Say, at least 375HP for a 4-passenger car, minimum of 400HP for a SUV.

-Style, car should make you look back over your shoulder every time you walk away from it.

-Reliability, No constant unscheduled maintenance stops or funky electric or software gremlins. (So I guess that excludes anything Italian or British)

-Relative affordability, obviously if you have an unlimited budget all of these characteristics are met, but lets say you want to keep it in the middle to high-end range of around $40,000-$60,000, give or take 10% for options.

-Exclusivity, I don't mean unimaginative exclusivity like driving a Bentley. You shouldn't have to spend $200k to have something sorta unique. I mean, if I drive the car on a daily basis, what are the odds that I'll see a clone of my car more than once a day. Very unscientific methodology here, but ideally, I'd prefer to go a week or more without seeing another car like the one I'm driving. This may vary because I suppose if you live in Palm Beach or Beverly Hills, Bentleys and Maybachs are like taxicabs.

I'd like to hear what other board members have to say in this regard. Usually, owners/enthusiasts of E9s appreciate a certain style and rarity, so I thought this board is a perfect place to ask this question.

Without giving it a great deal of thought, I'm leaning towards the Audi camp (S4, S5, S6) and despite it's questionable styling the Cayenne GTS because they really do perform well and I don't see too many in my region. I think if Audi has solved the "boaty" handling and suspect reliabilty of its previous generations, they're contenders.


Any thoughts?
 

hans3

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Criteria #2 greatly limits the field, but it's perhaps the most important to avoid buyer's remorse. Also consider lb / hp and dealer aftersale service in your criteria.

My nod, with a slight bending of crit #3, goes to the Jaguar XF. If preowned is OK, consider a W126 body Mercedes 420SEL.
 

x_atlas0

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375 hp? That will significantly limit your choices, as there just aren't that many cars at that price point with that kind of power.

A slightly used 550/750 would meet your criteria, except for the reliability/looks department.

I must also suggest a Jag XF. A slightly-used XF supercharged fits your criteria and surpasses your power requirements.
 

x_atlas0

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E39 M
E31 v12

The E39 M5 has some major repair bills, especially due to the carbon buildup in the intake tract, VANOS replacements, complete cooling system replacement every 60-80k, a woefully inadequate clutch and transmission, and the endemic E39 cluster pixel problems.

The E31 does not come close to hitting the power requirements, the V12 is a nightmare to maintain, and finding good ones is becoming difficult at best, given the newest one is more than 10 years old.

On a completely different route, a VW Phaeton meets many of your requirements.

Other good options: CTS-V (current or previous gen), Pontiac G8 GXP or GT.
 

jranmann

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Top of your budget sure but if go certified pre-owned it will fit within same nicely...

engine-and-transmission_58BAC6CD-4F4D-49CD-B83D-463EACF6D7C9.jpg


Two advanced engines are available that meet your stated bhp needs (VOLVO designed and built IIRC)

engines.gif


Couple either engine with the 4th gereration Haldex AWD system w/
the superb electronic limited slip differential (new this year to SAAB,
Volvo, Jaguar, etc) and you have a vehicle that can readily take 4
adults anywhere with ease, grace, comfort and style.

interior-photos_0A693277-FA79-43BA-BFD1-5CAC2F791BDE.jpg


2010-Land-Rover-Range-Rover-Sport-Performance.jpg


http://www.landroverusa.com/us/en/Vehicles/new-range-rover-sport/overview.htm

The Range Rover Sport starting at $60,495
 

duane_sword

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well, for what it's worth I have decided on an Audi (New England weather has finally beaten me to conclude that Audi quattro is infact superior to anything with a Roundel and xi badge)

I have narrowed my choice down to a brand new Audi S5 (gorgeous 2 door coupe, dare I suggest E9-esque?) or a used reasonable mileage Audi RS4 (WOW! I test drove one today, it made my E39 M5 seem slow and antiquated)

Duane
 

acat2002

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thanks for the input so far. However, maybe I should have been a bit more clear.

What would YOU select? I'm curious.

I've got my opinions. I agree w/ Chic regarding M5/6 in terms of pure specifications, but it's not simply about that. BTW, I just threw those HP specs out there as a "baseline". Surely, I wouldn't exclude a really nice option because it had 340 or 350 ponies.

The four or five categories I threw in there were more of a qualitative measure. You guys could probably add a few more, such as brand loyalty, proximity of factory service, types of warranties offered etc. Lets' include pre-owned models also (much more bang for your buck), but no older than 3 yrs.
@Hans-I love the W126, but REALLY love the W215 (CL55/500) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W215, but given that the body style was retired five years ago, it would be unlikely to find one with low mileage. I like to get at least four to five years service life from a daily driver, so buying a pre-owned car over 5 years old does not make sense in the long run at these prices. The current version of the CL reminds me of something Darth Vader would drive to work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_C216 I think I remember that Atan888 has a sweet CLK 63 "black" edition http://www.emercedesbenz.com/Images...z_CLK63_AMG_Black_Series/113909207c720_03.jpg, that I give full marks to, but that is skirting the upper echelon of affordablity and practicality (crazy fast though!).

My main point is that very few cars made in the past five years in the $40-$60k bracket (or even upwards of $70k) really inspire me to lust after and part with my cash. I currently drive a 10-year-old MB AMG ML55 w/ample power (342hp) and serious torque. Body style is weak and the handling sucks, but it has a perfectly functional GPS, comfortable amenities and....most importantly has been paid for for over five years!!! I sometimes have to listen to a squawky suspension bushing and the interior has seen its share of spilled coffe and cheerios from the kids, so I sometimes get the "new car bug" when cruising eBay.

The new M's are great from a technical standpoint, but really suffered from Bangle's "vision" IMHO. I would only drive a Volvo or Range Rover or Jag if you gave me two (one to drive while the primary one was broken). horrendous reliability has been a problem for some time for Rover/Jag and Ford's involvment has done little to help. Volvo was great UNTIL ford took the helm. THough I do like the style and comfort of the Range Rover.
 

acat2002

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well, for what it's worth I have decided on an Audi (New England weather has finally beaten me to conclude that Audi quattro is infact superior to anything with a Roundel and xi badge)

I have narrowed my choice down to a brand new Audi S5 (gorgeous 2 door coupe, dare I suggest E9-esque?) or a used reasonable mileage Audi RS4 (WOW! I test drove one today, it made my E39 M5 seem slow and antiquated)

Duane

Duane, I have yet to drive either, but that is sort of what I'm thinking as well.
I had the first version of the 4.2 A6 in 2000 and aside from a little bit sloshy feeling (they stiffened subsequent versions), the car was an absolute rocketship (and a complete "sleeper" too!). Audi has the best AWD of any car I've driven. Not crazy about Audi's warranty program and dealer support in my area but would definately consider both of those aforementioned cars in my top ten.
 

duane_sword

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oh, and for looks and heritage (prior to Indian ownership) I also test drove a Jaguar XJR saloon... sloppy handling, no soul, felt just like a Ford
 

jranmann

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I would only drive a Volvo or Range Rover or Jag if you gave me two (one to drive while the primary one was broken). horrendous reliability has been a problem for some time for Rover/Jag and Ford's involvment has done little to help. Volvo was great UNTIL ford took the helm. THough I do like the style and comfort of the Range Rover.

Somehow I think that's old history (2008) as Ford has shed LR and Volvo makes the drivetrain and the body is fantastic...Quality and reliablility is improving very quickly, although spending that kind of cash means I am giving up a CSL somewhere in there!

Consider I am on the hunt for a LR Series IIA (or SIII) One ton pickup and of course it's a differnt ride entirely....
onetonmag.jpg


http://www.onetonlandrover.co.uk/mainpage.html

Can05812.jpg


very cool though and very rare as fewer than 700 were produced and only half of that in LHD....



Cheers!

Ran

Note: BMW did no better with LR than Ford and now most UK folks won't drive a BMW for political reasons having nothing to do with the car and more with how BMW tossed LR to the wolves...works for me!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/business/worldbusiness/27auto.html
 

craterface

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Drive an e90 M3 before you buy anything. It is not pretty like the Audis, but I drove the e90 on the track at the Bmw Perf Ctr in SC back to back with the new gen M5 and M6. The e90 is incredible. Short of an F430 it is the most fun street car I have ever driven. Driven the V8 S4 Avant (you want exclusivity--it's got it), and it is great, until you drive the V8 M3 sedan.
That said, my wife currently drives a 2007 A6 S line, and it is very reliable, smoothe, and looks great. We had an A4 1.8t for 7 years before this Audi, and it too was reliable.
I will buy a V8 m3 one day, before the v8 goes out of production.
Scott
 

acat2002

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Ran, my neighbor around the corner has a very original LR SIIA (SWB) in that very same chalky-faded moss green. I covet it every summer when it's out of storage and taunting me in the driveway. (It's not FS, believe me, I've asked) Scores off-the-chart in the exculsivity category (you'll be hard pressed to find another on the road), but scores very low on practicality scale. Can't imagine driving any "real" LR more than 20 miles. Even the Def 90 & 110 are tough to take for more than a few miles.

Didn't mean to douche the entire rover family, just the contemporary ones. Still, I love how solid the ride feels in a new Range Rover. It's just that for that kind of money, I've come to expect a lot more performance and reliability.
 

acat2002

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Drive an e90 M3 before you buy anything. It is not pretty like the Audis, but I drove the e90 on the track at the Bmw Perf Ctr in SC back to back with the new gen M5 and M6. The e90 is incredible. Short of an F430 it is the most fun street car I have ever driven. Driven the V8 S4 Avant (you want exclusivity--it's got it), and it is great, until you drive the V8 M3 sedan.
That said, my wife currently drives a 2007 A6 S line, and it is very reliable, smoothe, and looks great. We had an A4 1.8t for 7 years before this Audi, and it too was reliable.
I will buy a V8 m3 one day, before the v8 goes out of production.
Scott


A de-badged V8 S4 Avant would be the ultimate "sleeper" indeed.
Stick a car seat or two in the back of that rig and dust by your local sideways-baseball-hat-wearing, fart-can pilot as he struggles to rationalize the cost of all those ridiculous mods he's got into his Impreza.
 

jranmann

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The one-ton was built on the 'forward control' chassis and uses the same gearbox and salisbury axles for maximum durability and grunt...Defenders are for sissies and the prices here are incredible anyway...This puppy is the real deal e.g. the Ministry of Defense in England and utility companies use 'em... all over the globe to this day, day in and day out...Note the high stance what I like about this model...check out the link below their Registry.

I used to be the records officer 4 Series II club in the UK some years ago and sourced chassis number tables on most of the early models as a hobby..If I find one i'll come up and give you a ride in a 109 LWB model so you can 'round out' your LR experence...(Since we got few good roads up here it's to be my get out on bad roads in the winter mobile so to speak)

2118701.jpg


See: http://www.onetonlandrover.co.uk/

Oh, if you really want a deal on a wagon how about some stripes on your leather ala the 93 Sport Combi AWD Aero? These can be had for incredible deals now and the warranty is solid as the car.. and heck, maybe Saab and the Chinese will get along just fine and open up more US based dealerships...could happen!

Truly a great touring car, and because it's cousin the 93x is due out here in the next month (or so) at about $45k the 'deals' are in these '09' Aero Combi AWD (Haldex AWD) models which can still be found, (esp. in Boston and surrounding area) brand new... for at least $10-12 k off sticker if not less...

Who needs 375hp when a good turbo six will do even more nicely on lots less fuel and you must admit it's a stylin' wagon IMHO...

0612_z2008_saab_93profile_wagon-1.jpg
2009-Saab-9-3-Wagon-20T-Touring-4dr.jpg


You asked my (our) opinion...Humor me, broaden your perspective and at least go drive one?

:mrgreen:
 

David

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The E39 M5 has some major repair bills, especially due to the carbon buildup in the intake tract, VANOS replacements, complete cooling system replacement every 60-80k, a woefully inadequate clutch and transmission, and the endemic E39 cluster pixel problems.
.

I dont mean to hijack this thread, but I brought up the E39M because Im considering one. It seems there are quite a few opinions on the true maintenance costs. Where can I get a clear picture of what I'm in for if I buy one ??
 

x_atlas0

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I dont mean to hijack this thread, but I brought up the E39M because Im considering one. It seems there are quite a few opinions on the true maintenance costs. Where can I get a clear picture of what I'm in for if I buy one ??

You could ask the M5 board, as many of their number own the car in question. It seems many coupe people here have one, as well.
 

acat2002

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I dont mean to hijack this thread, but I brought up the E39M because Im considering one. It seems there are quite a few opinions on the true maintenance costs. Where can I get a clear picture of what I'm in for if I buy one ??

Actually, I don't think you're hijacking at all. A question like that fits with the purpose of this thread. (to get a unscientific survey of what coupe owner's like to drive - or would like to drive among today's high end contemporary cars)
 

craterface

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If you are looking for e39 M5s, check the website enthusiastauto.com
They are in Cincinnati, and currently have about 5 for sale. Gives you a good idea of what is out there.
I have visited their shoop to look at e30s, and they are legit. I have a friend who bought a low mile e36 m3 from them and he is pleased.
Scott
 
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