what would you do?

[cookbw]

Hi All,
I'm new to the forum, but I've been reading it for a while now. I'm fascinated and inspired by the brilliant restoration work that so many of you are doing.

So I finally bought an E9. It's a 72 3.0 CSi with 5 spd and a new crate motor. Runs/drives great and the body is straight, but it's definitely got some rust and it needs interior work. I have no prior experience with auto-restoration and so would be paying for most of the restoration work out of pocket. At this point, I'm trying to decide if it's a good idea to try and restore this car. I don't want to make a show-car out of it, just a reliable daily-driver that looks good and isn't in danger of rotting completely from the inside.

Well here are some pics of the car. I'd love to get input from those of you experienced with restorations and any suggestions about who I should go to for work on the car ( I live in the San Francisco bay area).

http://picasaweb.google.com/ben.cook/7230CSi?feat=directlink

 

[pamp]

Got to love it

Yep,
I am thinking of starting a 12 step program... "e9 unanimous" as I have become an addict. Seems like you can start with an oil change and it kind of snowballs from there. And now I must go out and organize the shop as per "she who must be obeyed" Hope you all can feel the pain!

 

[simoniko]

Hi

1. (MAJOR RULE) A BMW always deserves care and restoration !

Welcome , your car looks good , it misses not so much to become a neck braker of the bmw fans !
If you have some more money , you can throw it in that direction with no hesitattion , the car deserves it , the bond is good , strong engine and the best gears !
If i may ask how much did you pay for it ?

 

[Stan]

If it were me, I would address the rust issue and made the car safe. Pay someone knowledgeable to do a thourough inspection of the important stuff like brakes!
Spend the weekend cleaning and vacuuming for immediate gratification!
My California mega millions tickets and if you win have Carl Nelson or Peter Sliskovich restore it for you :lol:
Looks like it is in decent enough shape to start

 

[MichaelP]

(A) I have no prior experience with auto-restoration and so would be paying for most of the restoration work out of pocket.

(B) At this point, I'm trying to decide if it's a good idea to try and restore this car.

(C) I don't want to make a show-car out of it, just a reliable daily-driver that looks good and isn't in danger of rotting completely from the inside.

I'm not trying to be cruel, but given what can be seen from the extensive rust in the photos:

Point A = Somewhere between 50 and 100 thousand dollars

Point B. See point A

Point C. See point A. To make this car simply safe, the DD cost might be closer to the lower figure.

It is difficult to tell what's going on, rustwise, from the firewall back in those photos. The floors and front inner and outer fenders will definitely need to be replaced once you start digging. If there is that much rust in the fenders, the news in the rockers will likely be bad as well. The good news is that you have no sun roof, so the drains may not have rotted out the rear end of the rockers, but who knows until you get in there.

I'd suggest just driving it, but the front inner fenders look pretty scary.

 

[tmason]

Hi Cook
It's looks to be alike rusty and 50-100k would do her right but I thing you should look for a rolling rust free shell and place with all the parts from your e9 onto that car for 30-60k or buy a classic e9 for 12-40k and drive her wheels off! Happy to see another e9 fan,and welcome.
Tim

 

[cookbw]

thanks everyone for the replies. simoniko, i picked it up for 6k plus shipping from GA to CA. initially i'd hoped to find a decent, rust-free one for around 15k. after looking around for about year, it seemed most cars in the 15k range were also pretty rusty underneath, so i started to think any car i could afford would have significnt body/rust. with that in mind i decided to take the plunge when i found this one with the hope that i could use the money i saved on the initial purchase to clean up the rust.

anyway, complete restoration is probably not possible on my budget. maybe i can start in smaller pieces and keep her running in the meantime. but where to start? seems like with rust you need to address all the problems areas in one pass while you have the car torn down. if rust repair can't be done for way under 30K, then i'll be cruisin in a classic rustbucket for a while.

 

[jmackro]

...complete restoration is probably not possible on my budget. maybe i can start in smaller pieces and keep her running in the meantime. but where to start? seems like with rust you need to address all the problems areas in one pass while you have the car torn down. if rust repair can't be done for way under 30K, then i'll be cruisin in a classic rustbucket for a while.

cookbw:

Well, you have sort of answered your own question.

Previous posters have given you good advice - I certainly don't disagree with what has been said before. But, to add a little more:

All coupes have some rust. But yours looks particularly rusty. The floors aren't so bad, but it is scary around the upper spring towers. I wouldn't drive a car in that condition.

As you yourself said, you can't attack rust piecemeal. To fix a rusted car, you need to disassemble it, have it media blasted, and then have a very competent shop cut out the bad and weld in the good. This is very expensive, which is why it is worth spending more to get a less rusted car.

Once you get this car disassembled and the paint stripped off, you will probably find that it is worse than it currently appears. ALL older cars are this way. You are likely to find poorly done prior repairs (Bondo over rust, fiberglass over rust, paint over rust, etc), as well as rust that is hidden with the car assembled.

I'd say that your options are to: 1) Sell it to someone else, perhaps to be used as a parts car, or 2) Have a specialist to whom you would trust your life (because you are) inspect the car, and perhaps pronounce it drivable as-is.

 

[Stan]

Here is an idea,
Check this car out and if solid, use the good parts from yours to make this one better then sell the extra parts

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/1086153255.html

 

[cookbw]

hmmm...

not a bad idea stan. this body might be much cleaner than mine. i don't really have a good space to keep a spare right now, but could figure something out.

since i don't have the tools or know-how to transfer mechanical systems from one car to another, i guess the question for me comes down to cost. if you assume the body/structure of the CL car is good, then how much do you expect it would cost to transfer the good engine and trans from my car to the green machine?

 

[cookbw]

a score?

maybe you can find a decent low-rust car for 12-15K. from 10000 feet, it looks like somebody scored a good one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-...4279040QQsspagenameZRSSQ3aBQ3aSRCHQ3aUSQ3a101

 

['69 2800cs]

I don't think it's a good idea to restore that car. The rust appears to be significant and will only get worse as you dig in.

Frankly, it's not a good idea to restore any car...you're better off letting someone else foot that bill and then buy the finished car.

I like Stan's idea, but the green car likely has the same rust your car has. Without tools, skills or storage space, you've spent $9500 for two questionable cars and you're no closer to driving. The swap might run $1-$2K, or maybe more depending on what you find and if you can come up with ~$10K there are better cars out there for you.

Sell the car. Take out a loan and buy a straight $10-15K 2800cs or spend the $6K on a clean Bavaria.

 

[Stan]

Another idea, contact Peter Sliskovich the Coupe King.
http://www.coupeking.com/product_id-396.html
He has a few rust free (or minimal rust) cars for sal and the one listed above is in your range. Maybe he will make you an offer on your car, add some $$$$ and get a great coupe out of the deal?
Never hurts to talk to him.
I bought my coupe fromhim in 2002. It started at about the price listed for this car, then he did some work and I drove it back to NH

 

[Stan]

Sickness Enabler

Here is another one....
http://www.coupeking.com/product_id-419.html
Very nice

 

[tmason]

Yes, I think Stan has the best advise. A couple of classic.You should look at the coupe e9wayne is offering! NICE!!

 

[cookbw]

thanks again. that's a good idea. i'm curious what he wants for the nachtblau car. the bumpers would have to go, but they could probably come from my car. maybe the first shell would be an option as well. both shells look solid. i sent him an email, so we'll see

 

[dave v. in nc]

be safe...

I think that all here (all?..) would agree, that what you don't know CAN hurt you. Case in point...

About 20 years ago I went to look at a beautiful red CSi with intentions to buy; a divorce settlement car. A bubble or two, but no noticeable rust. He wanted $6900. Said he'd just howled around the mountains the day before, up to 90 mph on one straight. I take it easy for a while on the test drive (without seller), and open it up on said straight, to about 75. Time to test the brakes and front end...not a panic stop, just eased the pedal to warm the brakes, before a little more...the left rear caliper locks up and I lay at least a 50 yard black mark and fight like hell to keep it straight, as its all over the place; fortunately no traffic. I catch gears and pull it over to a stop finally. As I crawl around and under the car, I see that part of the rear suspension has ripped loose from the (now obviously) rusty chassis/unibody. I could pull pieces out from the hole. I hitched a ride back with the postal carrier to the guy's house. He thought I was joking until we rode to see the car. He asked what I would give him for the car. I gave him the keys. Took almost 16 years to find a solid one, and we still had to address some rust. As previously stated, until she's nekked, you just don't know. Dave V. in NC

 

[dave v. in nc]

cars for sale

Ben, I assume that you saw the review of the Taiga (green) car in a cars for sale post? If not, take a look.

 

[cookbw]

taiga??

are you referring to the apparent junker in sacramento. just saw that review. saves me a trip. good stuff!

btw...scary story of your test drive.