Installed the Mega Squirt today...

[pamp]

B.S.

Canadiansize...litres...

 

[sfdon]

I limit myself to 3 big beers these days....
Then I move on to the good stuff.

 

[61porsche]

More pls.

The VR bracket and a/c?

Is there a solution whereby a york compressor and the OEM bracket would work? left side of the pump? Dummie the distributer, fix the advance and trigger there even if it meant converting a motronic style cap? I know MSIII applications control vanos which means we could alter cam advance too without cracking the cover.

Or is the later style bracket and sanden, etc. a must?

I know there is some play allowed in the MSIII ( Perhaps II) software to fine tune the VR position relative to correct timing; i.e. change the timing map.

Also are there any stealth tips as to how to best hide the system and keep an original look as much as possible?

 

[sfdon]

The sensor isn't visible- stuck under the radiator hose.

Anyone want a tip?- if you convert to Motronic and want to keep the original radiator, you will need the lower radiator hose from the first generation of the 6 series Motronic.
[it's info like this that makes Carl Nelson so invaluable and actually cheap]

I have tried lining up the sensor and the York... too much for me. All my used Yorks go into early Ferrari's that I work on.

Follow the leaders on this one- go with the ac compresser and bracket off the e32

 

[Sven]

VR mounting & distributor

The VR sensor can be mounted at any position around the trigger wheel. A custom angle is entered into the program to reference the VR position to TDC. You would need to custom make a bracket to hold the sensor if the York bracket interfered with the later OEM VR bracket.

The original distributor can be used. You would need to fix the centrifigal weights inside the distributor and plug the vacuum lines (or just leave them off). The ECU will control the all the advance through the distributor. I guess there is enough overlap of the rotor contact and cap contacts to allow for the various advances. If you went with electronic ignition, then hiding the multiple coils would be hard to hide.

 

[61porsche]

stealth

It seems to me that that by using a Hall sensor and drilling the damper for magnets similar to Crane's type of MSD install would work for those owners that wanted something less obvious than a trigger wheel.

Just a thought.

I'm also curious about mapping resolution. Early MS had 12by 12, newer is 16 by 16. However other systems- Halltech boast 24 by 24. In a search for torque down low (or idle to 2500 or so) vs. upper range hp is there a difference?

 

[Sven]

Jerry,

Yes, the Hall sensor option would work. You would still need to build a custom mount for it and install a magnet. Should be fairly easy - perhaps an angle with one tab bolted to the timing cover and the other holding the round sensor in place.

Here is a link to a MS forum topic discussing table resolution size for MS. The developers say that 16x16 is plenty adequate. Their algorithms interpolate between cell points and do not just use the nearest cell point for calcs.

Forgot the link: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=33052

 

[decoupe]

Hall Sensor and Bracket

http://s54.photobucket.com/albums/g...view&current=P1010494.jpg&mediafilter=noflash

 

[AndyM]

The original distributor can be used. You would need to fix the centrifigal weights inside the distributor and plug the vacuum lines (or just leave them off). The ECU will control the all the advance through the distributor. I guess there is enough overlap of the rotor contact and cap contacts to allow for the various advances.

This is very easy to do if you want to run a single coil. Just use an L-Jet distributor with the VR sensor built in and lock out the advance. I just removed the weights and epoxyed the upper and lower shafts. That distributor will trigger a GM module or the MS. Works great for a single coil system and looks stock.

 

[ben]

Folks have done an excellent job of describing the system requirements. I am still a little uncertain as to whether or not the 60-2 toothed balancer and VR sensor (what is that?) are required for all conversions (i.e., CS, CSi, or motronic 1.3).

Could somebody please give a definitive answer on that as well.

Thanks
Drew

Since no one else has fully addressed this, Megasquirt in its basic form does not need the 60-2 toothed wheel or corresponding sensor. You can use Megasquirt to replace your carbs (in which case you will need injectors, intake manifold, fuel pump and lines, etc) and run your existing distributor. Megasquirt will trigger off of the ignition pulses from the distributor, just like an old L-Jet system. You can use Megasquirt to replace your D-Jet or L-Jet system on this same principle, as a fuel management only system.

Now if you want Megasquirt to handle your spark timing as well (like a Motronic system) then you need to give it some form of crankshaft position information, hence the need for the 60-2 crank pulley, or something like it. Other alternatives are the old style flywheel teeth and reference mark setup (theoretically more accurate, but it's splitting hairs and insignificant on a motor like an M30) or installing some kind of wheel in the old ignition distributor and using that (considerably less accurate than triggering off of the crankshaft since the distributor is subject to internal play, play in the drive gears, and timing chain slack.)

Ultimately, if you wanted to convert to an individual coil on plug setup and eliminate the distributor cap setup entirely, then you would need to add a camshaft position sensor to allow Megasquirt to identify cylinder #1 and fire the proper coil. This also allows full sequential injection.

So, the short answer is that no, the toothed crank wheel is not necessary for all conversions, only for Motronic conversions or conversions where you want to elminate the distributor from having the job of controlling spark timing.

 

[pamp]

Mega

Umm,
Hang on a second..."camshaft position sensor" Doesn't the crank trigger arrangement do this job? Am I missing something here?

 

[Sven]

For every single cam revolution the crank goes around twice. If using sequential injection or individual coils, then MS needs to know TDC for cylinder #1 (thereby knowing all the others). The crank trigger will only tell MS that it is either #1 or #6, but not which one. The cam trigger syncs the crank signal to #1 so MS know where it is. For example, with wasted spark ignition (where two 360° phase different cylinders fire spark at the same time) MS does not care whether #1 or #6 is firing next, so no cam signal is needed. MS3 adds sequential, so the cam signal is now needed.

 

[pamp]

OK

Makes sense...of course, four stroke. So what is the hardware needed to go sequential? Are we using TEC 3 stuff as well? O2 distributor delete? Shopping list required.

 

[sfdon]

Quick note on crank pulleys- On the early version with no AC- no pulley other than the harmonic balancer is needed.Harmonic Balancer has one groove that goes to a double pulley at the water pump which runs the Alternator and the P?S pump.

 

[AndyM]

Now if you want Megasquirt to handle your spark timing as well (like a Motronic system) then you need to give it some form of crankshaft position information, hence the need for the 60-2 crank pulley, or something like it. Other alternatives are the old style flywheel teeth and reference mark setup (theoretically more accurate, but it's splitting hairs and insignificant on a motor like an M30) or installing some kind of wheel in the old ignition distributor and using that (considerably less accurate than triggering off of the crankshaft since the distributor is subject to internal play, play in the drive gears, and timing chain slack.)

You don't need the toothed crank pulley to have full spark control with a distributor. You only need it for distributorless systems. Don't make it harder than it needs to be. An L-Jet dizzy with the advance locked out will do the trick for 99% of the applications out there.

 

[johanaxelson]

E9Wayne, any news on your dyno etc?

 

[E9Wayne]

MS Tuning Update

Hey guys, it's been a while and I had promised to put some video and dyno results up. Well, my schedule has been crazy the last two months and we've been waiting for a critical wideband sensor harness to come in; my current one has a short in it and it periodically doesn't display AF ratios or allow input into the ECU.

When we last left off, my car was running terrific in general driving conditions and my seat of the pants dyno was impressed with the added pull, eagerness and sheer power gains, throughout the rev range. And pinging was nearly eliminated just after a few auto tunes.

But, we've done no auto tunes or table modifications since the second week after the install due to this short issue.

That means cold and warm start need work, she also runs too rich even in situations where less fuel would be okay, so my mileage has dropped to about 14-15 mpg.

On the plus side, this mod and the exhaust are the best upgrades I've done to this engine, no question. And we will be installing a firmware upgrade (version 3.0) which means the Alpha N fuel mixture/ignition algorithm will be more responsive and provide better results.

Once this is all done, back to dyno and I'll report the results! Cheers,

 

[m5bb]

Any update ever posted?
Researching a set up like this and would love to hear the results?

 

[sfdon]

Tough situation here- Wayne took a Viper out for a test drive last spring and ended up in the burn ward at the hospital for 7 weeks. He is on the fast track to recovery though so we will hear from him again! He is definitely a tough bird.
I did see him last fall? back in Virginia and the car was running beautifully.
He has a euro 10:1 MS setup.

 

[m5bb]

Sorry to hear that. Glad he's on the mend.
Hopefully he can chime in with an update in the future.
Thanks for answering Don.

Gary