Patricia A. Mayer's 3.0 CS / Paul Cain's Fjord project / The 300 mile Test Drive / VIII / Final Punch List

DWMBMW

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I also have a VW collapsible Petri hub on mine but swapped out the cover to the 2 stepped BMW. Hopefully I never test it’s advanced safety design.


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paul cain

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Paul - it took me a minute to understand what was going on with the steering wheel hub, but now I think I get it. Can you confirm that in the photos "petri hub" is the part that actually attaches the steering wheel to the steering column and "VW collapsible petri hub" is an ornamental cover that just hides the actual hub? If so, are the three different cylinders of the cover separate pieces that would slide down over each other in the event of an impact on the wheel?

The "petri hub" is a work of art in its own right. Too bad it isn't visible.
Apologies, I should have made that clearer. The molded and stepped plastic cover is purely decorative. It's the below part that is structural link between the wheel and the column. Below is an image of this VW engineered hub. The mesh design, material selection and welding on this device is what I was referring to. Most car guys cannot fathom just how much engineering and development goes into such a 'simple' part.

In the event of a crash, this gives you 3 additional inches of deformable material before the (rigid) column punctures your rib cage.

I could not agree with you more. The VW hub is a work of engineering art.
 

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coupedegrace

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Apologies, I should have made that clearer. The molded and stepped plastic cover is purely decorative. It's the below part that is structural link between the wheel and the column. Below is an image of this VW engineered hub. The mesh design, material selection and welding on this device is what I was referring to. Most car guys cannot fathom just how much engineering and development goes into such a 'simple' part.

In the event of a crash, this gives you 3 additional inches of deformable material before the (rigid) column punctures your rib cage.

I could not agree with you more. The VW hub is a work of engineering art.
Ah, the stepped cover is made out of plastic - didn't think of that. It all makes sense now. Thanks as always!
 

Bmachine

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I have what appears to be the same mesh type of column on this Petri "2002 turbo" wheel.

EDIT: I should add that I got this wheel from my friend Gary @Bimmer 3.0 CS

I am still looking for the decorative 3 step cover.

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paul cain

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Does the E9 not have a "collapsable" steering column?
1974 MY and forward Coupes had an "adjustable'' column. (this became std. on the E12) When the chrome adjusting handle is tight, I can assure you the column length is not collapsible. In a force vs. acceleration contest the pinch strength of the column 'nut' is going to be much larger than what your ribs can absorb.
 

paul cain

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Bmachine

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I have what appears to be the same mesh type of column on this Petri "2002 turbo" wheel.

I am still looking for the decorative 3 step cover.

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This made me think... You said in post 402 that "The VW hub is a work of engineering art." Since mine appears to be original to this wheel, which has nothing to do with VW, does it not imply that this collapsible column was made by Petri, redarless of which car it ended up with?
 

paul cain

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This made me think... You said in post 402 that "The VW hub is a work of engineering art." Since mine appears to be original to this wheel, which has nothing to do with VW, does it not imply that this collapsible column was made by Petri, redarless of which car it ended up with?
Petri would be the Tier I supplier of both the wheel and the hub. Design responsibility, Drawings, Product Validation & Testing would all be owned and controlled by the OEM.
 

Erik

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That '02 Turbo wheel hub looks like the same accordion design as the Sirocco hub. Nice looking wheel too.

Currently have a Petri 320is design wheel installed and it has a similar cut-out hub, but the cutouts are larger and less regular. Does not look as collapsible as the VW hub & that seems odd given it's later production. Circa early '80's.

-Regarding other safety features during your re-freshening; have you replaced the belts in your car, or do you consider it unnecessary?
 

paul cain

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That '02 Turbo wheel hub looks like the same accordion design as the Sirocco hub. Nice looking wheel too.

Currently have a Petri 320is design wheel installed and it has a similar cut-out hub, but the cutouts are larger and less regular. Does not look as collapsible as the VW hub & that seems odd given it's later production. Circa early '80's.

-Regarding other safety features during your re-freshening; have you replaced the belts in your car, or do you consider it unnecessary?
I kept all of the original seat belts in place. The retractors still worked great and they are the originals.
 

Ohmess

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@Erik thank you for these questions:

"What was the reason for using a VW Petri and did you ever consider keeping the '74"

Second question first: No, I find the factory 74 steering wheel to be pedestrian and cheep, it looks too much like the '77 320i wheel. And I am dubious that it offers much in the way of incremental crush zone protection.

Reason for the Petri hub......
In the middle of my career at TRW Automotive I was the air bag program manager for a number of OEM's during the initial growth period of driver and passenger air bags. TRW had a full sled test facility in Washington MI and we'd test every airbag inflator configuration before presenting the results to the customer. I became friends with one of the test engineers and he's show me the rogue's gallery of sled videos (25k frames per second as I recall). Most memorable was the unbelted 125th percentile males in 35 mph frontal crashes -torso accelerating from 0-35 mph straight into the steering column.


At this point the steering wheel itself is providing the protection of a looped coat hanger as it collapses immediately. Watching is cringe worthy even when you know its only and instrumented dummy. Think about your own ribcage as you re-watch the above clip. Sled footage of unrestrained children in the back seat is particularly hard to watch.

In summary, this experience has become exceedingly pivotal in the remainder of my driving career. Wear a seat belt. Seat belts are 100% effective. The deformable hub on VW petri wheel is a first generation attempt as supplemental measure to lower serious bodily injury. This hub design is the result of millions of dollars of development and testing. I have exceedingly high regard for those engineers at VW/Audi back in the day who developed this specific solution. And in the quality of it's construction. All OEM's have a FMVSS obligation to deliver increasing level(s) of crash worthiness. The aftermarket (hubs) have no such burden.
Thanks for posting this video: When I bought my coupe I looked up the manufacturers' recommendation for the life of the webbing in the original seat belts in our cars. The recommended life was 25 years. For anyone who is still using their original seat belts, please replace the webbing. Seat belts may not work if the webbing doesn't hold.
 

Markos

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Don’t want to hijack this thread, but the vast majority of Petri and Momo hubs moved to a collapsible steel mesh by the late 70’s. The original CSL/2002/CS ribbed Petri hub is a collapsible accordion also. Same as Italvolanti, which just has the accordion externally with texture paint.

Lastly, The e9 did have a collapsible (not referring to telescopic) lower steering column.

There are little rings cut into the bottom
of the lower column that indicate which is which. It is documented in the blue books with a photograph.


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paul cain

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Markos - certainly not a hijack. It's good input. The dwg shows No. 7 and No. 8 as equal substitutes. This is new to me. I've never seen that collapsible shaft on an E9. I just checked Patricia's (9/73 build date) and it has the solid steel shaft (no. 8) as shown. Have you seen one on a Coupe?
 

rsporsche

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never new this about the 2800cs as my coupe has a '74 adjustable steering column. interesting discussion.
 

paul cain

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Very interesting. And that they would discontinue a safety item. I've never seen one, but my time with 2800's is much more limited.
 
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