Looking for advice + recs as I begin my E9 restoration...

[hoju]

Hi everyone,

I bought my 2800CS just about a year and a half ago, and unfortunately, the car's been sitting in my garage since then. I finally have some time to begin this very exciting project, and was looking for some advice and recommendations. I figured I'd put everything in one posting as opposed to splitting them up, but let me know if that's not a good way to behave on these forums

1. First of all, I'd love to keep the car as original / stock as possible, within reason. I don't want to do an engine swap, put in Recaros, or anything like that, but I will be reupholstering in leather versus the original cloth, and I would like to install a/c at some point. This brings me to wheels and tires.

Should I stick with the 14" tires and original wheels, or am I being foolish? Is there a much better ride / handling to be had with larger sizes, or would it mainly be cosmetic?

I'd also welcome any tire vendor recommendations. I only know about Tire Rack, and they seem to have a dozen or so different ones.

2. I'm in Los Angeles, and would love any body shop recommendations. The car needs full paint, some rust repair, and a door realignment (it doesn't shut without being slammed).

3. Speaking of paint, I'd really like to have the engine pulled. Who should do this, the body shop, or a mechanic and then have the car towed to the body shop? Any thoughts on how much this part of it should cost roughly?

4. And what should be the order of doing things? Should I paint and then do the upholstery, vice-versa, or simultaneously?

Thanks very much in advance. As I begin this project, I'll do my best to share my experiences with the forum.

 

[Arde]

Good Time to start!

1. Stock is good. You still get the looks as this car in stock looks very different than today's cars. Forget A/C, the LA weather is the closest to paradise since either the woman or the snake got us kicked out of paradise, I forget which.
14 inch is fine for handling if you ask me, tire choices are limited though. A sway bar would improve handling without having to lower the stock stance. I think that a firmer highway ride can be achieved by going to wider 16 inch setups.

2. In LA I know coupeking that can do both mechanical as well as body/paint.

4. Any order I hear.

 

[tomcolitt]

I'd be happy to talk to you and help. I probably know these cars as well as anybody in Los Angeles and I have a restoration shop that has specialized in this model as well as Mercedes from the 1960 and 70s for over 20 years now (I have a full restoration going on a 1972 3.0CS right now). There is no part of an e9 restoration that I have not done personally from beginning to end (full disclosure: I have not tanned leather skins or killed any cows) .... I'm happy to just give you advice, but you can also save a bunch with my shop, compared to other names out there and I am one of the few who pays real attention to originality....

Regards, Tom
ClassicAutosLA
(323) 251-0987

Hi everyone,

I bought my 2800CS just about a year and a half ago, and unfortunately, the car's been sitting in my garage since then. I finally have some time to begin this very exciting project, and was looking for some advice and recommendations. I figured I'd put everything in one posting as opposed to splitting them up, but let me know if that's not a good way to behave on these forums

1. First of all, I'd love to keep the car as original / stock as possible, within reason. I don't want to do an engine swap, put in Recaros, or anything like that, but I will be reupholstering in leather versus the original cloth, and I would like to install a/c at some point. This brings me to wheels and tires.

Should I stick with the 14" tires and original wheels, or am I being foolish? Is there a much better ride / handling to be had with larger sizes, or would it mainly be cosmetic?

I'd also welcome any tire vendor recommendations. I only know about Tire Rack, and they seem to have a dozen or so different ones.

2. I'm in Los Angeles, and would love any body shop recommendations. The car needs full paint, some rust repair, and a door realignment (it doesn't shut without being slammed).

3. Speaking of paint, I'd really like to have the engine pulled. Who should do this, the body shop, or a mechanic and then have the car towed to the body shop? Any thoughts on how much this part of it should cost roughly?

4. And what should be the order of doing things? Should I paint and then do the upholstery, vice-versa, or simultaneously?

Thanks very much in advance. As I begin this project, I'll do my best to share my experiences with the forum.

 

[hoju]

@Arde: Thanks for the input!

@Tom: Thanks very much. I'll give you a call in the next day or so to discuss.

 

[tomcolitt]

Just to get you started: You will get vastly better handling with larger wheels and tires. Bilstein HD shocks and larger sway bars, maybe springs too. The ride will be harsher so it is a bit of a trade off. You are welcome to compare to the one I have here and I also have a 3.0CS here right now that uses 17" wheels and it has a better ride than the one with the 16" wheels. Both look great although they do give the car a somewhat less vintage feel, which doesn't detract too much from the original nature of the car. Plus, you should hang onto the 14" wheels anyway...

Ac is involved and therefore not cheap. I happen to have a complete original AC system here if you must have one.

The Coupe I'm currently restoring will get a new leather interior concurrently with the body and paint work. There's no point in getting one shop to damage the work of the first, even if you don't have one shop do all the work. I pull out the engine because I do not trust any mechanic or body man not to damage the new paint, fenders, hood and inner wheel wells when they put it all back together again. Plus, I remove all the parts from the body, compared to some shops who leave rain gutter trim, etc. in place and sand it along with the rest of the body. Also, the brake booster and other items, should you decide to do those things too, while everything else is out. I can advise you, whatever direction you choose to take and whatever level of restoration you want to do. I am a concours judge, so I have done 95 point class winners at some of the most prestigious shows, as well as daily drivers on a budget. (And I am the one who would judge them at only 95 points, because I'm a tough critic ....

 

[Ed G]

I would address potential money pits first and weigh them against your budget vs where you would like to end up.

1. Rust repair, body work and paint stand as the biggest drain and skimping here I think will cause you the biggest regrets. I don't think you'll find many who will give you a firm quote due to inevitable hidden surprises. Try to get an honest budget # and figure that you'll end up spending anywhere from 10-30% more. The more problems you uncover and point out to your body man, the more accurate your number will be. You'll have to pull up carpets, and remove some interior and exterior panels to uncover potential areas of need. A bare metal strip, 4-5 patch panels, epoxy primer, minimal body build up and respray could run as high as $20K depending on many things. As Tom indicates, working with someone who knows coupes is a big plus. For those who don't know, you will end up teaching them at your expense and perhaps end up spending more for a lesser quality job.

2. A fair/decent leather interior (World Upholstery) will run $2K prox plus another $1K for installation. See- http://worlduph.com/bmw/classic/e9/seat_cover/ Higher quality is available from folks like GAHH see- http://www.gahh.com/store.php?cPath=28_91_554&products_family_id=2 Both these sources will send you material samples on request.

Best of luck!

 

[Arde]

... There is no part of an e9 restoration that I have not done personally from beginning to end (full disclosure: I have not tanned leather skins or killed any cows) ....

Tom, great to know you have a shop, I didn't know that.

The bravado test is if you have ever restored a broken window gearbox .

(not replaced, restored).

I do not think even DQ has done that one.

 

[Stan]

Tom, great to know you have a shop, I didn't know that.

The bravado test is if you have ever restored a broken window gearbox .

(not replaced, restored).

I do not think even DQ has done that one.

No, I think DQ has done the window gearbox

 

[IS3FIFTY]

outside first

4. And what should be the order of doing things? Should I paint and then do the upholstery, vice-versa, or simultaneously?.

start with the outside: a correct paint job requires the removal of the aluminum belly trim and this requires removing the door panels and the cards by the back seats to reach the bolts that hold it in place.

In addition, painting is very messy: sanding creates tons of very thin dust, then there is spraying, etc... Anything inside the car will get covered in dust. Your new upholstery could also be damaged and that would be a shame.

Also, if you plan on changing the headliner, better do it right after the car has been painted because it requires the removal of the windshield. So, you should do this before they re-install the windshield. Side note on the windshields: these easily brake/chip during mounting. So it's better not to remove them too often. Ask me how I know...

 

[sfdon]

Keep in mind that your dentist and mechanic will love you if you go with 17" wheels with HD shocks and lower springs.
Reminds me of the Asiana Airlines that crashed. The pilots names were:

Ho Lee Fuk

Wii Tu Low and,

Bing Bang Ow.

 

[thehackmechanic]

My book (see signature) has three long chapters devoted to the outer body restoration of my E9, and another devoted to air conditioning, including retrofitting a/c into my E9.

It all depends what you want out of it at the end. If you want a concours winner and you have the wallet, an engine-out interior-out take-it-all-down-to-bare-metal approach will address all sins, but man it's going to cost you. There's nothing wrong with a trim-off-but-glass-left-in paint job if you're trying to do it on a budget. Just be prepared for people to nitpick about the overspray.

It's all trade-offs, baby...

--Rob Siegel

 

[jmackro]

Should I stick with the 14" tires and original wheels, or am I being foolish? Is there a much better ride / handling to be had with larger sizes, or would it mainly be cosmetic?

Can't answer that without knowing how you intend on using your coupe. Gonna autocross it? Then sure, install wide, 17" wheels. But if you just plan to just drive it, the stock set-up will be fine. I personally love the look of the 5-slot, 14" wheels and cringe when I see modern wheels on a vintage cars - but that's just me.

Another thought on wheels: You don't need to decide that right now. Wheels aren't like headliners; you don't need to change them while things are apart. Do your bodywork first; then when the shop finds less rust than expected and the job comes in under budget and ahead of schedule, you'll have the resources to pop for new wheels & tires.

Speaking of paint, I'd really like to have the engine pulled. Who should do this, the body shop, or a mechanic and then have the car towed to the body shop?

It has been my experience that body shops are poor at mechanical work and totally incapable of anything electrical. These guys are artists, not engineers. I'd vote to have your mechanic R&R the engine. And please, have the car flatbedded - not towed - between shops.

Should I paint and then do the upholstery, vice-versa, or simultaneously?

As IS3FIFTY wrote in post #9, the bodyshop will find a way to get overspray on your new leather. Of course, the upholsterer will also find a way to chip your new paint! Still, I'd follow his recommendation and do the upholstery second - upholstery is a smaller and less messy job. You can save a little time by pulling the interior and have it re-covered while the car is in the bodyshop.

 

[tomcolitt]

Tom, great to know you have a shop, I didn't know that.

The bravado test is if you have ever restored a broken window gearbox .

(not replaced, restored).

I do not think even DQ has done that one.

Hah Arde! Of course I have repaired a broken window gear box I have had to replace both the large plastic gear on one, the metal gear had play on another and I've also had to replace the brass bushings for the worm drive on yet another... (I didn't however, melt the brass in a cauldron, cast it and machine the bushings myself ;-)...

And I can agree with most of the good comments regarding the order of restoration work (or rather doing concurrent jobs that go together). I often tell my customers to put off a certain job that requires a lot of dis-assembly until they have second good reason to get in there or there is some over-lap with another job. Saves them money and I feel good about giving good advice. The main reason I haven't been advertising much on this site is because Coupe owners often used to like doing much of their own work and I have had plenty of customers in the classic Mercedes arena. The others, for whom money was no object, often found competent people elsewhere in L.A.... But, the Coupe was my first love, so I'm happy to offer my services again and combine my passion for working on and preserving these cars with offering high quality work at reasonable (not dirt cheap) prices...

 

[hoju]

@Ed G: Thanks for the advice and links. I knew about World Upholstery, but not the other source. Will investigate.

@IS3FIFTY: Great points. Appreciate you sharing your first-hand knowledge.

 

[hoju]

@Rob Siegel: Is there somewhere I can find out more about your book? Sounds like something I should read before diving in...

@jmackro: My plans are really to end up with a nice cruiser than I can drive for pleasure, not for racing or concours. I do need new tires immediately though and wanted to see what would be the smart way to go. I have decided on sticking with the 14" for now.

 

[hoju]

Here are a couple of shots of my 2800CS as she is now. The hood is open because the battery had died

 

[jmackro]

@jmackro: My plans are really to end up with a nice cruiser than I can drive for pleasure, not for racing or concours. I do need new tires immediately though and wanted to see what would be the smart way to go. I have decided on sticking with the 14" for now.

Assuming you plan to start the bodywork soon, I'd postpone replacing the tires until the car comes out of the body shop. The shop is likely to find a way to get overspray on new tires. Also, since tires degrade with age, there's no sense in "starting the clock" on your new tires while the car just sits in the bodyshop.

 

[hoju]

Jay,

That's a very good thought, but I'm not sure I can wait. I'm going to split out the tire question into a separate thread.

Thanks!

 

[Gernstetter]

Jay,

That's a very good thought, but I'm not sure I can wait. I'm going to split out the tire question into a separate thread.

Thanks!

Is your car a European import with blue velour and cord seat covers? If so, the material to redo them is still available and in my humble opinion, more elegant looking than most new leather restorations, BMW still has the cord center fabric and a supplier in Germany near me has the blue velour, they look like they came out of the factory....send PM with email and I will send you some photos, if your blue door cards are ok, you may want to ponder the leather/fabric decision for a while....you will have time....btw the door panels are to my knowledge only available from BMW now in black, and are quite pricy, if your carpet is blue and grey, add yourself to the list we have going for new carpet, see in the parts forum, cheers, Rob

 

[hoju]

Hi Rob,

Yes, my car is a European import and did originally have the velour seat covers. They're in pretty poor shape all around, so I will need to do a complete replacement. I've always loved the look of the leather interior in these cars, but I'm certainly open-minded to consider others. Will pm you.

The door panels are in good shape, and I'll check out the parts forum.

Sincerely appreciate the advice and information!