Received a brochure with this CSL featured. Was not in registry, so I entered it.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23132/lot/25/
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23132/lot/25/
1973 CSL Bonhams Scottsdale 1/28/16
- Thread starter adawil2002
- Start date
RogerB
Well-Known Member
Hope it hits the $250 - $350K estimate!
E3_kiwi
Well-Known Member
Looks like all data plates have been removed at some stage, and re-installed with new rivets.
This practice is frowned upon by many classic car aficionados/valuers and restorers alike, and must be avoided at all cost in order to retain such a valuable car's provenance/authenticity.
This practice is frowned upon by many classic car aficionados/valuers and restorers alike, and must be avoided at all cost in order to retain such a valuable car's provenance/authenticity.
I dont see why - I would rather they get painted properly under them and reattached with similar rivets to those used when new. It's not like it changes the car's identity as that is stamped into the shell.
Me want
I didn't hit the powerball last night, so it may never come to pass. Great to see a car like this for sale in the USA. Nice to see pics of the sunvisors, headliner, etc.
Should hit 300k USD IMO.
Scott
I didn't hit the powerball last night, so it may never come to pass. Great to see a car like this for sale in the USA. Nice to see pics of the sunvisors, headliner, etc.
Should hit 300k USD IMO.
Scott
Nice to see the Petri with phillips heads vs hex 
E3_kiwi
Well-Known Member
Agreed on both counts......maybe the reluctance to remove VIN plates stems from fear of prosecution under state or federal regulations, as given here for example...
http://www.justice.gov/usam/crimina...removing-motor-vehicle-identification-numbers
I am unaware of such a rule in the UK but there probably is one. If the intention is not malicious I do not see how anyone would prosecute or worry about such legislation when doing a restoration. It is rare to see the Karman plate in the door jam removed. Looking forward to seeing what this one makes - it may be a lot of money versus values a few years back but I can't help but think they are cheap relative to a 2.7rs Porsche!
RogerB
Well-Known Member
+1
jvrenaudon
Well-Known Member
Sorry to be anal but the rivets used for the Karmann plate in the door jamb are not correct. They should be thin dome-headed driven brass items, not pop-rivets. How precious am I? John.
E3_kiwi
Well-Known Member
Two words come to mind for any prospective purchaser: due diligence.
And the question of what other shortcuts may have occurred during the 'restoration' must surely be answered before bidding.
Note to seller: for a restored CSL in this price range, authenticity is key.
And the question of what other shortcuts may have occurred during the 'restoration' must surely be answered before bidding.
Note to seller: for a restored CSL in this price range, authenticity is key.
jvrenaudon
Well-Known Member
Come to that, the door brake should not be fixed with a mills pin as shown in the photo; it should be a flat-headed plain pin. As E3 kiwi says, what else? John
Lets be a little nicer guys
Guys, guys, guys.
How do I say this?
Have you ever been to car show and seen that guy, you know the one pointing at somebodies car and saying "thats the wrong nut" or " they didn't use that screw there" to his buddy, often saying it loud so others hear?
What you have here is a series one Batmobile, with a matching numbers engine, I don't know how many Batmobiles have genuine matching numbers engines today or even how many of the first 110 Batmobiles are left. But we are looking at the pinnacle of our interest on E9s and while there are a few decent comments, mostly its "lets pick out whats wrong and tell everybody".
How about on an E9 site somebody saying "OMG a series one Batmobile with a matching numbers engine, would be totally awesome if that mileage was correct, needs a few small things, but wish I could afford it" or ????????
I know the previous owner of this car, who is a great collector and he actually used to open it up and show everybody what was wrong with it whenever they came to look at his collection. Yes, that includes the seam sealer in the engine bay, the 4 bar front grill and some other things others have missed. But, he also showed how clean it was underneath, how perfect all the wood is, how all the materials inside are original, no rips tears or cracks, the glass, the engine all the bits that really mattered were there and yes, it pulled like a train, I actually had the chance to drive it........yes, he is that kind of collector, willingly sharing with like minded people.
Can I humble suggest, that we try and not always show how clever we are pointing out this and that, unless asked of course. If somebody on the forum is seriously thinking about the car and asks opinions, then its fair game. But, lets remember these words stay here forever and any car may be connected to somebody we know, previously owned by them or about to be purchased by some new person who joins.
Some positive comments on a what is an extremely nice numbers matching car might be nice.
Guys, guys, guys.
How do I say this?
Have you ever been to car show and seen that guy, you know the one pointing at somebodies car and saying "thats the wrong nut" or " they didn't use that screw there" to his buddy, often saying it loud so others hear?
What you have here is a series one Batmobile, with a matching numbers engine, I don't know how many Batmobiles have genuine matching numbers engines today or even how many of the first 110 Batmobiles are left. But we are looking at the pinnacle of our interest on E9s and while there are a few decent comments, mostly its "lets pick out whats wrong and tell everybody".
How about on an E9 site somebody saying "OMG a series one Batmobile with a matching numbers engine, would be totally awesome if that mileage was correct, needs a few small things, but wish I could afford it" or ????????
I know the previous owner of this car, who is a great collector and he actually used to open it up and show everybody what was wrong with it whenever they came to look at his collection. Yes, that includes the seam sealer in the engine bay, the 4 bar front grill and some other things others have missed. But, he also showed how clean it was underneath, how perfect all the wood is, how all the materials inside are original, no rips tears or cracks, the glass, the engine all the bits that really mattered were there and yes, it pulled like a train, I actually had the chance to drive it........yes, he is that kind of collector, willingly sharing with like minded people.
Can I humble suggest, that we try and not always show how clever we are pointing out this and that, unless asked of course. If somebody on the forum is seriously thinking about the car and asks opinions, then its fair game. But, lets remember these words stay here forever and any car may be connected to somebody we know, previously owned by them or about to be purchased by some new person who joins.
Some positive comments on a what is an extremely nice numbers matching car might be nice.
Very well put Nash.
Id plate
So i saw the note about the plate rivits and siad they were
brass dome units?
How do you get them as i need to reinstall the plate after the paint
So i saw the note about the plate rivits and siad they were
brass dome units?
How do you get them as i need to reinstall the plate after the paint
I agree about the rarity and matching numbers... but the missed details combined with what appears to be bubbles behind the driver's side front wheel indicate that one should be prepared for additional "investment" beyond purchase price.
jvrenaudon
Well-Known Member
Nash,
I respect your views entirely and please be assured that I was not trying to be clever. I fully accept that my (uncharactertistic) remarks deserve your justifiable criticism. However, my underlying point is that it is often easier to do the job right than do it wrong and, in doing it right, one can remain faithful to the detail of the original build in the interests of posterity and for personal satisfaction. In my post I focussed upon the Karmann plate as an example of this. When I restored my 2285295, which is a one-owner, I felt a singular responsibility to preserve everything I could about the car in terms of its originality. True, there were departures but I hope that none were gratuitous in nature. For example, sticking with the Karmann plate, I went to trouble to remove it before the car's acid bath and then reinstate the plate with its original fixings after paint. What could be easier other than ensuring that you don't lose the four little brass rivets as in the case of a subsequent correspondent to this thread? See - I told you that I was being precious!
Finally, yes, it is a lovely car and I regret that I did not make that opinion clear. John
I respect your views entirely and please be assured that I was not trying to be clever. I fully accept that my (uncharactertistic) remarks deserve your justifiable criticism. However, my underlying point is that it is often easier to do the job right than do it wrong and, in doing it right, one can remain faithful to the detail of the original build in the interests of posterity and for personal satisfaction. In my post I focussed upon the Karmann plate as an example of this. When I restored my 2285295, which is a one-owner, I felt a singular responsibility to preserve everything I could about the car in terms of its originality. True, there were departures but I hope that none were gratuitous in nature. For example, sticking with the Karmann plate, I went to trouble to remove it before the car's acid bath and then reinstate the plate with its original fixings after paint. What could be easier other than ensuring that you don't lose the four little brass rivets as in the case of a subsequent correspondent to this thread? See - I told you that I was being precious!
Finally, yes, it is a lovely car and I regret that I did not make that opinion clear. John
jmackro
Well-Known Member
My guess is that those pop rivets were used ironically. The restorer probably had the correct rivets on hand, but thought: "Hmm, if I re-install these data plates using the correct hardware, buyers might think that this is a forgery - that I'm trying to make it look too perfect because something has been switched. But if I use completely half a$$ed hardware - something like sheetrock screws or pop rivets - they they will know that I wasn't trying to fake anything".
Finally, yes, it is a lovely car and I'm sure the PO is a great guy.
Finally, yes, it is a lovely car and I'm sure the PO is a great guy.
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dascoupeguy
Well-Known Member
rivets...
I acquired a karmann plate (for paint code) that came with the 'correct' 'rivets'. They are actually steel not brass and have a threaded or knurled shaft that is 'hammered' or pressed on.
I will find a pic I took of them and post... DCG
I acquired a karmann plate (for paint code) that came with the 'correct' 'rivets'. They are actually steel not brass and have a threaded or knurled shaft that is 'hammered' or pressed on.
I will find a pic I took of them and post... DCG