Tariffs

Status
Not open for further replies.
CSteve said:
Or a cheap coupe!!!
Click to expand...
Yep. Those are always "rust free" and "run great!"...

Speaking of which has anyone else seen the 2800 CS automatic for sale in Mill Valley on Craig's List? A friend pointed me to it (since it is nearby).. Looks a bit like a "spray and pray" car.. exterior paint is nice, engine bay and inner fenders look very tired and rusty. Even the instrument gauge bezels are rusty!! Seems a bit shabby for a $30K asking price, IMO..

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/d/mill-valley-1971-bmw-2800-cs/7847075861.html
 
Interesting read on the shower heads, @ScottAndrews.

When reading it , I saw parallels to how the Dutch government is behaving very unpredictable about regulation for farmers (mostly environmental related - I have no stake in the farmer topic); but my point is that many farmers here simply do not want to invest in improvements regardless if they have the money, if it helps their company grow, or even if it just helps the environment today, as they doubt if the government next week doesn't throw in higher/lower/different rules.
Making it all a waste.
Net effect: nothing moves anymore.

The parallel: predictability in governments, combined with a few other prerequisites (entrepreneurship, finances to be able to invest etc) is what makes an economy thrive.
Ditch the predictability, and it starts to creak and moan.
Like take the grease out of a bearing; it will keep running for a while, but it will run hot, go slower, small pieces start to break (fretting) that you don't really see at first.

Would I restore to the EU if werd be in the same pickle? Maybe if it's easy to relocate. But moving an entire car production plant + supply line simply takes about as long an average countries leadership duration is.

(Fyi, the highly US oriented comments are a bit lost on me, partly as it has little relevance for me, partly because it's low on e9 trivia)
 
Last edited:
eriknetherlands said:
Interesting read on the shower heads, @ScottAndrews.

When reading it , I saw parallels to how the Dutch government is behaving very unpredictable about regulation for farmers (mostly environmental related - I have no stake in the farmer topic); but my point is that many farmers here simply do not want to invest in improvements regardless if they have the money, if it helps their company grow, or even if it just helps the environment today, as they doubt if the government next week doesn't throw in higher/lower/different rules.
Making it all a waste.
Net effect: nothing moves anymore.

The parallel: predictability in governments, combined with a few other prerequisites (entrepreneurship, finances to be able to invest etc) is what makes an economy thrive.
Ditch the predictability, and it starts to creak and moan.
Like take the grease out of a bearing; it will keep running for a while, but it will run hot, go slower, small pieces start to break (fretting) that you don't really see at first.

Would I restore to the EU if werd be in the same pickle? Maybe if it's easy to relocate. But moving an entire car production plant + supply line simply takes about as long an average countries leadership duration is.

(Fyi, the highly US oriented comments are a bit lost on me, partly as it has little relevance for me, partly because it's low on e9 trivia)
Click to expand...
I agree 100%. Consistency is key. Even crappy policies can be dealt with, as long as they don't change. The worst thing you can do, and it is what is being done, is impose a disruptive policy, wait for the backlash, change the policy, and rinse and repeat. That is effectively NO policy, since nobody can plan and adapt to anything. No sane manufacturer is going to make a multi billion dollar investment in an assembly plant to avoid tariffs if the tariff policy is fluid, and if the policies are so polarizing that they are certain to be reversed with a change in administration that is likely to occur before the manufacturing facilities can come on line.

And none of these considerations even come close to addressing the fact that cars are ASSEMBLED from myriad parts that are sourced from all over the world. So a building a vehicle assembly plant in the US still doesn't relieve the cost of tariffs on the parts. Making those parts in the US is a bit like making shower heads. Sure, you might have a 30% tariff, but that's nothing compared to a 100% rise in the cost to produce the same part in the US (because of cost of living, etc). And none of this begins to address the time frames and costs associated with completely revising the supply chains.

All of this simply underscores the amateurish and naive thinking that has been at the root of these policies.
 
eriknetherlands said:
(Fyi, the highly US oriented comments are a bit lost on me, partly as it has little relevance for me, partly because it's low on e9 trivia)
Click to expand...
Apologies for the US centricity. Actually the South Africa issue that surfaced yesterday may be closer to your understanding as Afrikaners have started a few years back to emigrate to Holland, due to family roots, language similarity, and pursuing opportunities without being impacted by racial quotas. I hear they have gone to the Eindhoven area and many are working for ASML.

Looks like the Musk beef is precisely commercial around operating Starlink without race mandates.

IMHO shining light is always good...
I did not hear a peep on South Africa tariff deals yesterday, weird.
 
ScottAndrews said:
I agree 100%. Consistency is key. Even crappy policies can be dealt with, as long as they don't change. The worst thing you can do, and it is what is being done, is impose a disruptive policy, wait for the backlash, change the policy, and rinse and repeat. That is effectively NO policy, since nobody can plan and adapt to anything. No sane manufacturer is going to make a multi billion dollar investment in an assembly plant to avoid tariffs if the tariff policy is fluid, and if the policies are so polarizing that they are certain to be reversed with a change in administration that is likely to occur before the manufacturing facilities can come on line.

And none of these considerations even come close to addressing the fact that cars are ASSEMBLED from myriad parts that are sourced from all over the world. So a building a vehicle assembly plant in the US still doesn't relieve the cost of tariffs on the parts. Making those parts in the US is a bit like making shower heads. Sure, you might have a 30% tariff, but that's nothing compared to a 100% rise in the cost to produce the same part in the US (because of cost of living, etc). And none of this begins to address the time frames and costs associated with completely revising the supply chains.

All of this simply underscores the amateurish and naive thinking that has been at the root of these policies.
Click to expand...
Many years ago (late 90s) I was in China with a Chinese American fellow.

After the obligatory evening of the drinking game, with the leaders of his different manufacturing companies he had relocated from the US to China, the friendship and conversations the next morning were more open. So I asked the question, "Wouldn't you like to see democracy here" his answer at the time was enlightening ......" No thank you, this system is not perfect, but we get up each morning and we know what the rules are; there is no room for misunderstanding, so as long as you know the rules and abide by them, all is good, you cannot say the same with your so called democracy" he became extremely successful.

I am certainly not asking for the Chinese system, but all this hyperbole nonsense about bringing manufacturing jobs back to America shows a complete naivety to not only the Asain, Indian and third world economies, but also a complete lack of business sense. As you mention, no manufacturer is going to spend $Ms or even $Bs building manufacturing plants here, when in a year or three, the administration changes and your competitors are again manufacturing in the cheapest available area.

As to Americans working for Asian or Indian wages:-) - well, it's just so ridiculous
 
I am sure this tariff thread will reach #2 (after Al's 4310316 Begins), yet there is one executive order that has me more intrigued than trade % games. The decision that the US will pay MFN drug prices to Pharma and no more.

First, I never thought I would live long enough to see that. My brother is an economist and he laughed dismissively decades ago when discussing the option that Pharma would sell drugs in the US at lower or parity prices.

Second, as I age, I am more sensitive to drug prices and medical costs than to Chinese trinket costs, or even E9 parts costs. I have seen personal bankruptcies due to illness, never to trinkets.

Third, an executive order is not enough unless the seller is willing to sell. Even if they are, can the principle be codified through legislation, or is Pharma that strong that they would block it or eventually reverse through legislation once a less adversarial administration is in office.


​

 
 
From my favorite cable company

[td]
Paracable​
​
​
​
​
[/td]
[td]
It's with a heavy heart that I write to inform you that Paracable will be closing its doors permanently. After an incredible 15-year journey, we are shutting down operations due to the increasingly challenging manufacturing environment and ongoing tariff uncertainties affecting our China-based production.​
​
​
[/td]
​
 
 
deQuincey said:
paulkrugman.substack.com

A Letter to Europe

You’re stronger than you think. Act like it.
paulkrugman.substack.com paulkrugman.substack.com
Click to expand...
Here’s how it works: an Irish subsidiary of a multinational company that manufactures, say, pharmaceuticals sells the drugs at inflated prices to the US subsidiary that markets the drugs here. That reduces reported profits and hence taxes in America, while creating big but basically imaginary profits in Ireland, where corporate taxes are much lower.

Arde: Exactly. The profits are not repatriated to avoid paying high US corporate taxes. A company I worked for had so much profits oversees that it did a startup acquisition overseas every year over ten years.

These accounting maneuvers make it look as if Ireland, and hence the EU to which it belongs, is exporting a lot, but no jobs are created; it’s only about the corporate bottom line.

Arde: Bull Shit, it avoids paying taxes in the US and then generates jobs elsewhere not in the US. It is not imaginary nor accounting, and it results from sales of a US corporation incorporated in Delaware. I cannot think of a more perverse outcome.

Yes, the EU should crack down on Ireland’s role as a tax haven. But that hasn’t been one of Trump’s demands.

Arde: Wrong. The US is being abused, the EU has no incentive nor responsibility to fix that. Trump 45 actually worked hard on lowering corporate taxes so repatriation of profits does not result in such a big hair cut. Actually pushed for a deal with Apple where Tim Cook would bring manufacturing to the US in exchange for lower corporate rates. Trump 45 delivered his part, Tim Cook did not. Perhaps our fingers are too fat to assemble iPhones.

even chatGPT knows the fact:
  • Corporate Tax Rate Reduction: The TCJA permanently reduced the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. This was a central element of the tax reform.
  • Goal of the Reduction: The Trump administration argued that lowering the corporate tax rate would stimulate economic growth, encourage investment, and lead to job creation. They believed it would make the U.S. a more attractive place for businesses to operate and invest.
 
okay guys, this thread is starting to make me regret being a moderator everytime i see a new post in it. either tone it down or we will lock it up - got it?
 
Breaking news….


A federal court on Wednesday ruled President Trump does not have the authority under economic emergency legislation to impose sweeping global tariffs.


Why it matters: The U.S. Court of International Trade's ruling could bring the administration's trade war to a screeching halt.


By blocking entirely most categories of tariffs, the court effectively wiped out most of the regime Trump put in place since taking office.


Driving the news: The court, ruling in two separate cases, issued a summary judgment throwing out all the tariffs Trump imposed under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, or IEEPA.
 
Scott (rsporsche Scott) - I knew it was just a matter of time until this thread imploded. I love a good political conversation like everyone else, but like I mentioned weeks ago, time to implode this sucker. It's really not worth it. A lot of us have become friends on here in person and online. Mostly due to our passion for vintage cars in general, maybe some new BMW's/Porsches etc (not my forte), but it really isn't worth the divide with this sort of banter. Like I mentioned earlier, there are plenty of other sites for that. I don't get offended in the least bit, but I just don't feel this is the site to talk about this stuff. I belong to other vintage motorcycle sites, etc. where this is strictly forbidden, and everyone gets along just fine, politics aside. It has turned political whether you want to recognize that or not.

Where I see the relevance early on w/ tariffs affecting parts, importation of cars, cost of manufacturers here and abroad, etc. We all get it. You know what? Do your own research on this elsewhere boys and let's all be friends and move on. Nobody is going to change anyone's viewpoint at this point, it will only create divisiveness, I've already seen it. Think what you want, read whatever sites you want and listen to whatever news you want. There are two sides to everything. Just don't bring it here.

Let's just get back to having fun and enjoying our love for the marque...BMW's, in particular E9's, E3's, 2002's whatever... Just cut it, at this point it will only do good and no harm. We've all said what we have to say without (I hope) pissing anyone off to the point of not wanting to communicate in a civil manner on here anymore. There is a plethora of knowledge from both side of the political spectrum regarding what we love, let's not ruin that years long love affair with petty politics divide...it just doesn't make sense.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top