Help with 'Technical' info for an 'oldie', but now newbie

I purchased a '74 3.0 CS about 6 weeks ago, and am now trying to 'get to know' this car, and it's history. I knew a bit about it before purchase, but need some help from you BMW gurus who know not only E9's, but the other models/engines up through the '80's. I had two E9's and two E3's in the mid 70's to early 80's, (each consecutively) but no BMW's after the final E3 3.0S that I bought in '78 (I think).

The previous - previous owner of this '74 had a complete refurbishment done to to the exterior and interior of the car by 'Motion Products' in Neenah WI over 1984-5. Motion Products had previously restored his Ferrari to concours winning spec, and he spent over $35K there to refurbish and somewhat customize this car. In addition, he later had 'Metric Mechanics' of Kansas City build their 4.0 liter Hi-Flo Sport engine for the car, along with a refurbished 265/6 transmission. That work was completed in 1993 He sold it to his friend in about 2006, from whom I bought the car. It has been driven about 20K since the refurbish and upgrade work. My questions today revolve around what MM in KC did.

A new 3.5 liter block was purchased from BMW, and upgraded/modernized by MM (3.5 stamped on intake side of the block, Jim Rowe seems to have been the MM contact). I'm attaching a picture of the engine as it appears now, and am looking for help in identifying what 'ancillaries' were probably used in this build. I 'think' the written documentation indicates a 530i, but it is a bit scribbled, so I can't tell for sure. The Engine Management is via Motronic, electrical fuel pump, etc. The car runs very strong.

My current need for info about the ancillaries is due to the fact that the Air Conditioning system needs to be rebuilt. The hose from the compressor to the condenser had sprung a leak, and was spraying oil out whenever the AC was turned on. I think the compressor is toast and want to replace it with a Sanden, and upgrade the condensor, as well as return the system to R-12. So, I need to know what mods I'll need to make to the compressor mounting bracket.

THANK YOU for any help/confirmation with the ancillaries. Also any info you might be able to give about what MM did to produce the '4.0 liter Hi-Flo Sport engine would be appreciated as well.

A/C thread:

http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9633

Steve,

Yes, that is a great write up, and I've read it several times - plan to do essentially the same stuff.

My current question is the mounting method to use for the compressor, as my mounting bracket looks nothing like the one shown in your picture.

THANK YOU so much for the effort you put into documenting your experience and SUCCESS in upgrading the AC. I know the AC on my '73 that I drove in the late '70's, in NC, SC, and GA was not anything to get excited about, even with R-12 refigerant!

IF it is any help to someone, here are a couple of pix of the current bracket/compressor. Well, only one would upload, I'll try again tomorrow to get two more up.

Cheers,

A BMW 4.0CSI you have.

I would put 20k miles/year in such a beast.

Good move!

just did mine,bought it on Ebay, conversion bracket and compressor for $191.00, Joe

Gary,

Based on the cold start injector and it's wire, you have early Motronic 1.1, e12/e24 is correct. Motronic 1.3 came later in the 80s, sfdon knows when for sure, it didn't use that cold start system. If engine work was done in the 90s I doubt they bought a new block since they needed the head and all injection plumbing and ECU. Maybe came from a parts car and refurbished? Makes me wonder why they didn't go with Motronic 1.3 after all that trouble as well. My b35 is from an 88 635CSi. MM may call it a 4.0 system but that block won't go that big, I think 3.8 is all you can go and that's with a stroker crank. Again, I am not an expert on motors, someone may correct me.

If an A/C shop is doing the work they can find or make a mounting bracket. Several styles have been posted here to show differences. You can also use the BMW Seiko rotary compressor, that is what I used. With a parallel flow condenser, new hoses using o-rings instead of flare, new dryer and pump, R-134 puts out plenty of cold air. Just don't expect it cool instantly as the evaporator is still a limiting function. But when cold you'll have the coldest right arm in existence.

Holy cow a 4.0! I didn't even know that was possible. I wonder if the block is an M90. The 3.5L M90 had a bigger bore and shorter stroke than than the M30 3.5L. Adding the M30B35 crank gives you a cheap stroker (with other mods).

Chris, THANKS for all the info. I do have records of MM charging the owner $5995 for a new 3.5 block in 1993. Their total charges for the work was just a tad over $15K. So, he put a bit over $50K into a '74, back in '93. I hope he enjoyed the car a LOT, as that investment in good stocks about that time was worth a lot more than he sold the car for in '06!!

I'm certainly interested in knowing WHAT Metric Mechanics did back in those days to charge over $12k for building an engine! Anyone know the HP and torque results they got (or posted), and whether they were real or not???

A friend of mine with whom I've done scads of maintenance stuff on the Porsche 928's we both owned is also a registered AC technician. He's retired, and we both work in our 'shops', so we'll do the maintenance/upgrade work on the AC system.

Cheers,

HB Chris said:

Gary,

Based on the cold start injector and it's wire, you have early Motronic 1.1, e12/e24 is correct. Motronic 1.3 came later in the 80s, sfdon knows when for sure, it didn't use that cold start system. If engine work was done in the 90s I doubt they bought a new block since they needed the head and all injection plumbing and ECU. Maybe came from a parts car and refurbished? Makes me wonder why they didn't go with Motronic 1.3 after all that trouble as well. My b35 is from an 88 635CSi. MM may call it a 4.0 system but that block won't go that big, I think 3.8 is all you can go and that's with a stroker crank. Again, I am not an expert on motors, someone may correct me.

Click to expand...

Chris, I don’t mean to be argumentative, but that has be LJet. Why run those intakes with Motronic? I have only heard of 1 guy who did that and it took a good bit of machining to fit the Motronic injectors and fuel rail to the runners. Also, you bring up Motronic 1.1. You have missed Motronic Basic which is the first go round of Motronic. AFAI, this was a one year deal and was only on euros. My 81 Euro 635 has this system on an M90 with matching Vin. A one year only production and was a low impedence system. I have verified the build of my car with Andreas Hartz of Mobil Traditions as many people said there was not an M90 after 1980 nor Motronic prior to the 82 model year. This verified when the engine was torn down for rebuild. The block, with the required “L” was there but different in the fact that there is not a raised water passage on the drivers side of the block as an additional identifier

I am also having a rough time trying to figure out why Metric Mechanic would run this system on a “monster” motor (unless) somehow it has a stand alone injection system

Thanks Bert, as I said I'm no expert. I didn't study the fuel rail and such, it just sounded like 1990 they would have been dealing with Motronic and not ancient L-jet.

Oh what fun.....
Motronic 1.3 works fine with c tubes and plenum.
That's why all the Vanagon injectors are gone from the junkyards

Chris Macha is currently running those fresh Vanagon injectors with Motronic 1.3 and c-tubes.
Car runs great.
That distributor in the pic? It could be staked and hooked up to Motronic or it could be real and that would be a Motronic/Jetronic hybrid. Or you can make it points.
Fuel and spark can be independent all day long.
You can go the other way too- carbs with Motronic ignition or carbs with Jetronic ignition.and you can run carbs with points- they all work.
I've made at least 5 Motronic cars with c tube/plenum/stub manifolds from the late 70's early 80's.
The only one that doesn't want to be messed with is d-jet..

A/C bracket

the bracket alone, Ebay posting number 151723749167 for $49.00.
the bracket and compressor #252007274487 for $191.00, Joe

Chris and Bert,

I'm still a bit confused. IF I want to look at a E24 engine (or other model) that was OE fuel injection like the one I have, what exact year/model should I be looking for?

I really appreciate your help and comments. THANKS,

I will let Bert or sfdon answer that one.

IIRC fuel injection was available starting in '78 on the 630’s. I am sure Don will correct me if I am wrong. In model year 81, the euros had Motronic basic, first year for Motronic. I will leave the djet and ljet to Don. It is also my belief that injection can be fitted to any M30 engine with the proper conversion parts.

You haven't shown anyone the ecu yet so no one has any idea.
As Bert noted a decent builder can use a late 70's euro engine with early
80's USA intake with early 90's computer. Hybrid systems are done too. Take a look in your glovebox!
Do a compression test. You have a custom engine- likely no car made by BMW is a copyof your engine.

Don, et al,

The ECU - in/above the glove box has '78 280Z' written - in yellow - on it, as if from a wrecking yard. This seems to mean that engine management is L Jetronic, is that correct? So, any adjustments, mods, etc. I might want to make should be applicable to that system.

Hope this is correct, and if so, I appreciate everyone's help.

That's a step in the right direction. Now you need to find out what number is printed on the fuel injectors and what number is on your distributor.