1972 CSi on BaT (again) - Fjord car....

[lip277]

This one was on BaT about 18 months back. No explanation as to why it is now back on the market. Hopefully not due to any faults with the car itself. Clarity would be good to have on that to help prospective bidders feel better about not getting someone else's problem child (so to speak....
First glance - looks like a nice presentable car.
Several service items (and some more extensive/expensive items) are stated as to being done to the car recently. A pretty healthy list actually (especially if you are having the expense of a shop do the work).
Wonder if that has anything to do with it being for sale (again)?

Euro 1972 BMW 3.0CSi 4-Speed

Bid for the chance to own a Euro 1972 BMW 3.0CSi 4-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #215,978.

bringatrailer.com

 

[teahead]

74 style seats.

$85k plus a lot of work done since.

going to be hard to recoup his money back

 

[vince]

First couple of pictures don't do it justice. I liked it more as I went through the pictures, usually the other way around.

 

[sfdon]

The things that aren’t being shown or talked about….

Fenders replaced.. shoddy bondo filling in fender drain holes…

If the fenders had to come off, there needs to be pictures of the inside behind the glove box and behind the fuse box door to the left of the fuse box.
Also pictures looking into the front wheel wells.

Euro cars are infamous for having horrible rust problems in the fender and bulkhead.

 

[Minivansomeren]

The things that aren’t being shown or talked about….

Fenders replaced.. shoddy bondo filling in fender drain holes…

If the fenders had to come off, there needs to be pictures of the inside behind the glove box and behind the fuse box door to the left of the fuse box.
Also pictures looking into the front wheel wells.

Euro cars are infamous for having horrible rust problems in the fender and bulkhead.





View attachment 209967

Interesting. Don I definitely defer to your expertise, but is that definitely a sign of fender replacement? Could it be from the factory?

Mine has visible smears of something in those areas too. It is not nearly as thick/noticeable but it is there. I was under the impression that my coupe had never had the fenders off and never even had the engine bay repainted.

 

[rsporsche]

The things that aren’t being shown or talked about….

Fenders replaced.. shoddy bondo filling in fender drain holes…

If the fenders had to come off, there needs to be pictures of the inside behind the glove box and behind the fuse box door to the left of the fuse box.
Also pictures looking into the front wheel wells.

Euro cars are infamous for having horrible rust problems in the fender and bulkhead.





View attachment 209967

ruff, ruff ... that's bad

 

[HB Chris]

But Don, those are not fender drain holes, they are some kind of crimp when the fenders were welded on I assume. The 74 has two circular drain holes with plugs though.

 

[sfdon]

Thank you Chris- I suspected I had miss-identified them. I came to the shop and today and took pics of what I expected to see.

 

[afeustel]

My hypothesis is that those tabs are there to control the position of the fender on installation. It basically sets the "height" of the fender because there are metal tabs that fold away from the engine compartment and keep the fender from sitting too low prior to welding in place.

Again, this is a hypothesis only but from what I have seen, some are covered with seam sealer and some are not covered at all.

 

[mkekiddoc]

To Don's earlier point, there are many critical photos missing that could alleviate (or support) concerns about the critical rust areas. No shots of shock towers, spare tire well, bulkhead through the fuse panel/glove box. Seller didn't even remove the trunk lining. We all know there is something lurking beneath the cracked bitumen - could be a little surface rust or could be rotten. The visible parts otherwise show a very nice coupe.

The silence from the E9 community on this sale is ominous. Likely related to a poor presentation of what could be a very nice coupe. I think it will hurt the bidding today.

 

[Minivansomeren]

To Don's earlier point, there are many critical photos missing that could alleviate (or support) concerns about the critical rust areas. No shots of shock towers, spare tire well, bulkhead through the fuse panel/glove box. Seller didn't even remove the trunk lining. We all know there is something lurking beneath the cracked bitumen - could be a little surface rust or could be rotten. The visible parts otherwise show a very nice coupe.

The silence from the E9 community on this sale is ominous. Likely related to a poor presentation of what could be a very nice coupe. I think it will hurt the bidding today.

That’s an interesting take. I think it’s up to these particular bidders to ask for photos if they want them.

When I was bidding on BAT I read the FAQ on here and asked the seller for key photos. They looked good, and after I got the car, all the rust spots that can’t be verified through photos (bitumen) checked out solid as well. I always do a lot of reading before a big purchase, and obviously any seller who knows how to reassure bidders about the rust boogeyman with information and photos is a big green flag.

However there are plenty of less informed sellers (this is on consignment to a dealer) and plenty of buyers willing to make a more emotional, less researched purchase. That might still work out well in many cases. Personally I think this coupe looks pretty good from a rust standpoint (and I said that in answer to the guy who asked about the bitumen).

However, I don’t think it’s our community’s job to dive into every comment section on BAT, asking for photos and educating people on rust pitfalls. If the serious buyers are the type who do a lot of research, they will ask for the photos. If nobody is asking for the photos, I don’t think it is necessarily ominous, it just means that these bidders have other priorities. Now if somebody asks for photos of the glovebox and rockers and the seller refuses, that is more ominous.

Edit: or maybe I misunderstood you? If you think it’s ominous that there isn’t much chatter on this thread… it might just be that members are more focused on their own cars than BAT this week. I’m a newbie but I’ll take a stab - I’ll guess this goes around $60-65, with the uncertainty about not starting on the test drive.

 

[HB Chris]

I will only point something out if I feel the seller is not being up front on possible issues, I would not like to see a buyer get screwed because they don’t do their due diligence even though it is their responsibility. As we know, 90% of coupe buyers on BaT appear to be less than knowledgeable about their pending purchase.

 

[mkekiddoc]

Thank you for your comments, Minivansomeren and HB Chris. I was merely lamenting the poor presentation for a coupe that looks to have a lot of virtues, which naturally dims the interest from forum members. I didn't mean to imply that it is this community's obligation to vet every E9 for sale.

Totally agree about due diligence being the buyer's responsibility. It is good for the hobby when sellers present thoroughly and honestly.... and when potential buyers are as informed as they can be.

 

[Minivansomeren]

Thank you for your comments, Minivansomeren and HB Chris. I was merely lamenting the poor presentation for a coupe that looks to have a lot of virtues, which naturally dims the interest from forum members. I didn't mean to imply that it is this community's obligation to vet every E9 for sale.

Totally agree about due diligence being the buyer's responsibility. It is good for the hobby when sellers present thoroughly and honestly.... and when potential buyers are as informed as they can be.

Yeah I really do think it’s an interesting question, and honestly a personal one if I ever decide to sell my “survivor” coupe that hasn’t had much if any rust remediation:

Is it best to highlight in the listing that it has lived in the Southwest, been checked for rust, and had the cavities rust proofed by me? Is it best to avoid mentioning the dreaded R word but provide all the relevant photos for bidders who know what to look for?

I wonder how BaT would think about a seller linking to their build thread here on this forum so buyers can read all the good bad and ugly.

And back on topic, this didn’t even make it to 60. Seems there will be a lot of RNM for a while as sellers realize they can’t recoup their purchase price and repair/upgrade costs.

 

[HB Chris]

The CSi I listed in July only got to $91,500 and it had lots of restoration photos as well. Now is not the time to sell unfortunately.