Korman restored:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-Other-3...3d5fb7e19&item=291352837657&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
NMNA (unfortunately)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-Other-3...3d5fb7e19&item=291352837657&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
NMNA (unfortunately)
1972 CSL on eBay
- Thread starter Stevehose
- Start date
"Korman stage 1 3.3 Liter Motor
Korman sport suspension"
This would have been a carbureted 3L engine right? My inclination is to consider this a finely prepared driver vs a $150k original example. But academic for me anyhow!
Korman sport suspension"
This would have been a carbureted 3L engine right? My inclination is to consider this a finely prepared driver vs a $150k original example. But academic for me anyhow!
How would you price it? I have no clue.
I have started to maintain my sheet of sale prices, if anyone has final prices please let me know. I am watching eBay but there are many other sources.
Saw this car love at Kormans. Looked very nicely done. I thought it was close to flawless when I was at K's looking at the CSL that SkiCoach bought. I don't want to infer that this car is any less than top notch. Every car should be evaluated individually. Although I saw bodywork on E9's in progress (at Korman's) that screamed "short cuts." I'd say this is worth a carefull PPI.
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RogerB
Well-Known Member
That my friends is why I am reluctant to put a price on my CSL!! I just can't determine what the current market price is.
This is one of the 429 CSi L's with the 3 liter Djet engine... some interesting features/restoration choices; roll up windows and fixed rears but tool kit, elephant hide, and non-perlon carpet? Also strange, no wood in the center console and black sound deadening in the engine bay that's obviously not hiding anything but appears to be a preference? This group of L's is all over the place when it comes to delivered "lightness" from the factory and corresponding values. Real value? - I predict we won't find out based on the starting price.
All that being said, really nice looking car, great stance and I'm sure it's a blast to drive.
Foam Petri not leather
RogerB
Well-Known Member
No headrests or Scheel name buttons. Incorrect shift knob also.
No headrests is unusual but could be original, mine didn't come with them but I've never seen a Djet car without them.
Right now it's personality is in limbo... somewhere between an early lightweight and a city-pack car?
I wonder how many aluminum panels it has?
Right now it's personality is in limbo... somewhere between an early lightweight and a city-pack car?
I wonder how many aluminum panels it has?
Good question
I wish this seller would bring it to a major auction so we could find out.
North of 100k for sure, 150 perhaps.
I am pretty sure that the Orange carb CSL in Florida was bid to 180k and no saled. We also know that the black CSL at Amelia last year went for 163k, but that was also a carb car, IIRC. The data points are very few!
Scott
I wish this seller would bring it to a major auction so we could find out.
North of 100k for sure, 150 perhaps.
I am pretty sure that the Orange carb CSL in Florida was bid to 180k and no saled. We also know that the black CSL at Amelia last year went for 163k, but that was also a carb car, IIRC. The data points are very few!
Scott
And neither was terribly original... Not sure we've ever seen a matching #s, unmodified lightweight go on the open market since the big run up?
Glen's recent sale for a beautiful Djet car could be a good reference for the group of 429 cars.
RogerB
Well-Known Member
Glenn's sale data would be helpful, but I appreciate his respect for his buyer's privacy. He was kind enough though to tell me my insured value was underinsured by "around 50%".
while i totally agree with the buyers privacy ... i think it is important to note the sale, the date and the seller ... listed by the particular car model within the database and record the VIN. that way if a person is trying to recover from a loss, the information could be a referenced transaction that perhaps the insurance company could verify with the seller ... and be kept out of public knowledge. here's a good example - when Murray's Blumax was sold ... that was a high sale value of a well known 2800cs. the approx. value of the sale would certainly increase the value of other excellent examples of 2800cs ... and even 3.0cs.
Another thing to consider, when a forum member sells their coupe, perhaps they should ask the buyer if the VIN, model, color, condition, year of sale and price be kept in a database ... without any personal data being listed of the seller or the owner. this would help all coupe owners that ever have to deal with value. the information within the database - visible to the public does not have to include the last 4 digits of the VIN.
thoughts?
My two pennies
As these cars have become more valuable, there is becoming a waiting list for the good cars and they will mostly change hands privately, as infrequently as they do and I am just talking LHD for the moment.
So much depends on the car. Is it a Carb car? If its one of the 429 injected
LHD CSL's? what does it have and what doesn't it, what evidence is there that it left the factory like that? - not much normally for the 429 LHD CSLs cars, people tend to know "city pack" or not and thats about it, what color? and most importantly of all condition?
I personally would pay more for one of the bright colors, Tiaga, Inka, Colorado and Golf, but maybe others feel differently?
I would certainly pay more for an original untouched CSL in great condition, if such a thing exist.
So were does that put us on the price of a CSL?
I think there is a general feeling amongst buyers and sellers of where they would like to be and they seem very able to reach agreement when its the right car. Even the recent sale of Glens car happened very quickly between two parties in agreement.
Both recent cars mentioned by Scott below in auctions and therefore are data points, but both cars had issues and neither has the original engine sitting in them as we speak.
The last good carb car I remember was the Colorado car sold at the BMW Munich auction in October 2011, now this car was steal at the time and today looks unbelievably inexpensive at a price of 75K euros plus the juice, so again, not the best of Data points.
The price of great CSLs seems to be moving very quickly and at last people are understanding the value of the early Carb cars. But when trying to ascertain the value of a CSL, I believe the market has not yet found its "happy place" to settle in for a while - therefore there is going to be a certain amount of flux and fluidity in the meantime.
Buyers out there want good CSLs at this time and I believe trying to judge a general price on a CSL is like trying to pin the tail on a donkey at the moment. Lack of knowledge and understanding of CSLs is currently a great contributor to this phenomenon.
The old adage "its worth what somebody is willing to pay" still applies guys.
As these cars have become more valuable, there is becoming a waiting list for the good cars and they will mostly change hands privately, as infrequently as they do and I am just talking LHD for the moment.
So much depends on the car. Is it a Carb car? If its one of the 429 injected
LHD CSL's? what does it have and what doesn't it, what evidence is there that it left the factory like that? - not much normally for the 429 LHD CSLs cars, people tend to know "city pack" or not and thats about it, what color? and most importantly of all condition?
I personally would pay more for one of the bright colors, Tiaga, Inka, Colorado and Golf, but maybe others feel differently?
I would certainly pay more for an original untouched CSL in great condition, if such a thing exist.
So were does that put us on the price of a CSL?
I think there is a general feeling amongst buyers and sellers of where they would like to be and they seem very able to reach agreement when its the right car. Even the recent sale of Glens car happened very quickly between two parties in agreement.
Both recent cars mentioned by Scott below in auctions and therefore are data points, but both cars had issues and neither has the original engine sitting in them as we speak.
The last good carb car I remember was the Colorado car sold at the BMW Munich auction in October 2011, now this car was steal at the time and today looks unbelievably inexpensive at a price of 75K euros plus the juice, so again, not the best of Data points.
The price of great CSLs seems to be moving very quickly and at last people are understanding the value of the early Carb cars. But when trying to ascertain the value of a CSL, I believe the market has not yet found its "happy place" to settle in for a while - therefore there is going to be a certain amount of flux and fluidity in the meantime.
Buyers out there want good CSLs at this time and I believe trying to judge a general price on a CSL is like trying to pin the tail on a donkey at the moment. Lack of knowledge and understanding of CSLs is currently a great contributor to this phenomenon.
The old adage "its worth what somebody is willing to pay" still applies guys.
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values
As one who has been following the growing interest in and acclaim for the 3.0CS for five years (therefor a relative rookie in these parts), I too have noticed how the value trail went cold, particularly for the various versions of CSL about 18-24 months ago. I'm sure the news is good for all CSL owners, but like all who posted indicate, not much in the way hard info to support an answer to the question of "current value".
My memory would say a couple of years ago, decent to good driver examples of the LHD injected CSLs ranged $75k-$100k, with similar condition BATs starting at $150k. Excellent original and restored examples with original drivetrain intact garnered 25-50% more.
Relative to the CSL, it is easy to track the recent transactions of the 328, M1, and 507 as there are a number of public sales globally that would provide a basis for the conclusion that value has doubled more or less for excellent examples of these models over the past two years. Is the CSL a comparable collectible? I think so, but don't know of any data that supports a conclusion that values have doubled over the same period.
So, as owners can appreciate that the value trend the entire CS range is now enjoying allows many more examples to be maintained or brought back to their full glory, it is inexplicable to me why we haven't seen 2,3 or 4 trades a year of cars that would command top of the market prices. What few (public) transactions there have been certainly don't fit that description. We are left to wonder.
Do you suppose there are any owners of such a vehicle out there tempted to test the waters, to fish while the fishing is good? Or, are they saying to themselves, the CSL is finally getting noticed, and the run has just started?
brian
PS. All that said, just drive the damn thing, right? Except, there are plenty of us that don't have one yet.
As one who has been following the growing interest in and acclaim for the 3.0CS for five years (therefor a relative rookie in these parts), I too have noticed how the value trail went cold, particularly for the various versions of CSL about 18-24 months ago. I'm sure the news is good for all CSL owners, but like all who posted indicate, not much in the way hard info to support an answer to the question of "current value".
My memory would say a couple of years ago, decent to good driver examples of the LHD injected CSLs ranged $75k-$100k, with similar condition BATs starting at $150k. Excellent original and restored examples with original drivetrain intact garnered 25-50% more.
Relative to the CSL, it is easy to track the recent transactions of the 328, M1, and 507 as there are a number of public sales globally that would provide a basis for the conclusion that value has doubled more or less for excellent examples of these models over the past two years. Is the CSL a comparable collectible? I think so, but don't know of any data that supports a conclusion that values have doubled over the same period.
So, as owners can appreciate that the value trend the entire CS range is now enjoying allows many more examples to be maintained or brought back to their full glory, it is inexplicable to me why we haven't seen 2,3 or 4 trades a year of cars that would command top of the market prices. What few (public) transactions there have been certainly don't fit that description. We are left to wonder.
Do you suppose there are any owners of such a vehicle out there tempted to test the waters, to fish while the fishing is good? Or, are they saying to themselves, the CSL is finally getting noticed, and the run has just started?
brian
PS. All that said, just drive the damn thing, right? Except, there are plenty of us that don't have one yet.
BMW Pete speaks great wisdom...
I personally know of 4 CSL's that sold in the last year-ish. All were private sales so you'll have to find the owners and ask if you want to find out what they paid.
Based on this, I'd say a nicely restored CSL of any variant is worth well over $100k USD, and one with the original motor etc. ought to get a lot more. How much more? I've seen experts say anything from 15% to 25% more. BAT's command a substantial premium over the earlier cars, and the earliest lightweights with plexi windows etc. probably have the most potential for appreciation.
John
I personally know of 4 CSL's that sold in the last year-ish. All were private sales so you'll have to find the owners and ask if you want to find out what they paid.
Based on this, I'd say a nicely restored CSL of any variant is worth well over $100k USD, and one with the original motor etc. ought to get a lot more. How much more? I've seen experts say anything from 15% to 25% more. BAT's command a substantial premium over the earlier cars, and the earliest lightweights with plexi windows etc. probably have the most potential for appreciation.
John
Foam Petri not leather - Question
Stevehose,
Thanks for your comments.
Can I ask you to help me understand your observation? I am restoring a CSL - which has a non standard steering wheel from Alpina - follow link to see.
http://martinbuckleyjournalist.co.uk/gallery/driving-shots/
I dont know the value of this after market wheel so I am contemplating replacing it with an original Petri and I want to understand the difference that you can see so I get an original and correct replacement.
Many thanks
Stevehose,
Thanks for your comments.
Can I ask you to help me understand your observation? I am restoring a CSL - which has a non standard steering wheel from Alpina - follow link to see.
http://martinbuckleyjournalist.co.uk/gallery/driving-shots/
I dont know the value of this after market wheel so I am contemplating replacing it with an original Petri and I want to understand the difference that you can see so I get an original and correct replacement.
Many thanks
Petri vs Petri
My old CS had a foam rim Petri (just molded soft plasticky rim), whereas my current CSL has a sewn leather cover with real stitching.
I think that Alpina wheel you currently have (if it is the one shown in your photo gallery) is fantastic, and I would just run with it. Period correct and looks perfect to me.
Scott
My old CS had a foam rim Petri (just molded soft plasticky rim), whereas my current CSL has a sewn leather cover with real stitching.
I think that Alpina wheel you currently have (if it is the one shown in your photo gallery) is fantastic, and I would just run with it. Period correct and looks perfect to me.
Scott