$330k CSL at Bonhams yesterday

BMW Pete

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http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23945/lot/40/?category=list&length=100&page=1

Phone was dead, so no clear pictures, sorry. Sadly a car with a flat strip of metal roughly 1.5 inches wide, in the engine bay all the way down where the seams meet at top of fenders, literally on top of everything, cant begin to imagine whats under it.

You can blow up the Bonhams pictures and see it

I wish the new owner well as its a real Bat, but some serious remedial work needed.

Pete
 

Markos

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Hopefully you picked up a souvenir while you were there!

A closeup:

image
 

Markos

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Who would do such shoddy work on a coupe worth as much as they are now going for?

This car has been auctioned several times in the past, and discussed on the forum as late as last October. I beleive that RonP did the restoration. Strange because I'm an amateur and I wouldn't stick a piece of angle iron on the fender of my comparatively worthless 2800 CS. Hopefully the buyer decides to fix the outstanding issues and correct all the little things that people pick apart at this price point. If I had to guess, the buyer learns of the issues and unloads it on the next speculator that knows very little about these cars.

http://www.stanceworks.com/2013/06/1-of-110-ron-perrys-1974-series-1-bmw-e9-csl-batmobile/


http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/threads/csl-at-hymans.22354/#post-163638
 
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'69 2800cs

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Uggh....that Stanceworks article is so poor.

I AM glad the car received new upper control arms though...cause those are really important. That and "half shaft bearings".
 

RonP

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With the last 3 Batmobiles going for over $400,000 this one was well bought at $330,000 including buyer's premium. Not sure what you mean about the fender, as I just looked at my Taiga Bat and 3 other coupes in my shop and they all have the same construction. For the record, this WAS my car 5 years ago and I never did a full restoration on the car, just a lot of cosmetics. I am sure if you put another $50k in the car and sold it, you would still turn a profit. This is a fun and respectable driver and really needs a good paint job and some more cosmetics.
 

BMW Pete

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Gents,

With respect to all here - certainly not my intention to disparage anybodies car - if you look in engine bay, just in front of the shock tower is the sticker that straddles the high point there. Immediately above that sticker is the piece of flat metal I am talking about. Normally this piece of the structure, has two much smaller dimension angle iron sitting above and alongside the inside of the rain channel at a right angle- these small dimension strengthening structures, have a gap at about the hump of the shock tower.

This piece when correct has the lovely spot welds every 1.5 - 2 inches and has clean lines running where it sits above the inner wing and below the right angel strengthening pieces and you can see it is integral to the structure.

This is not the case with the car, if you blow up the pictures, you can see this piece of metal sitting on a heavy dose of seam sealer, which of course shouldn't be there on a CSL.

As mentioned, as some stage in its life somebody has added this metal to create a clean line and look like factory.

I agreed great Bats are all of $400k now, this though is an extremely long way from that standard.

That said, obviously two people thought it was worth this kind of money to own a real Bat with an original engine, which the car is
 

Markos

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I never did a full restoration on the car, just a lot of cosmetics. I am sure if you put another $50k in the car and sold it, you would still turn a profit. This is a fun and respectable driver and really needs a good paint job and some more cosmetics.

Good point. With $70K of headroom it is worth correcting this beautiful Bat. It will likely see limited road use and it will live in a climate controlled room. The rest of its life would be basic maintenance.
 

sandhu

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This bat is to be another garage queen,

I dislike people that have E9 cars in their garage, and refuse to enjoy them drive them etc etc

You Don't buy a bloody E9 for that, if you do, just buy a huge card board cut out of the car, stick it in your garage and look at it 2047..

I drive my e9 cars as much as I can as a daily driver, ( if it is dry outside), when I drive my cars, it's like it is Christmas every day... My cars stop traffic on main roads, take it to my BMW stealer, the car empties the show room out ... Manager not happy lol

I drive my cars like I stole them...like a bat out of hell....lol
 

Keshav

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Even a BAT should/ must have it ALL for that price. A non BAT CSL would be 'newly restored, completely', for all practical purposes, for way less than 330grand!

The White CSL (non BAT) in the Munich area, brand new complete restoration for 289grand.
Another one recently discussed is offering a complete restored golf CSL, in which you can add 'your personal touch/ desires), whilst watching your car take form, for 250grand.
I know personally of a early carb Inka orange CSL with race history/ papers, completely restored with new Alu doors, with only new parts and without patchwork/ bondo, brand new COMPLETE restoration by an absolute CSL expert, for 250grand. 2 months ago, including the car! The price included a 5 spd and a 3.5 ltr triple weber carbs putting out well over 340hp (original engine in a box) etc etc.....,

Just cause a BAT has a VIN that differs, to the extent that it has the large wing or not, cannot be over a 100grand in difference. Even some 4355's city pack CSL's, came without the wing!

Either way, for 330grand, you shouldn't need to take the front end apart to fix obvious problems, only to find more lurking around and then a new paint job too? We all know what happens when we strip a car of its paint, surprises upon surprises.

I have a non BAT CSL. Since I like the macho look of the large wing, I have that on a steel trunk and the original Alu trunk with the ducklip/ rubber spoiler decorating the wall. It's a 4 bolt change. Definitely not worth the 100grand difference.
Keshav
 

BMW Pete

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This bat is to be another garage queen,

I dislike people that have E9 cars in their garage, and refuse to enjoy them drive them etc etc

You Don't buy a bloody E9 for that, if you do, just buy a huge card board cut out of the car, stick it in your garage and look at it 2047..

I drive my e9 cars as much as I can as a daily driver, ( if it is dry outside), when I drive my cars, it's like it is Christmas every day... My cars stop traffic on main roads, take it to my BMW stealer, the car empties the show room out ... Manager not happy lol

I drive my cars like I stole them...like a bat out of hell....lol
Sandhu,

Please lets be polite, saying you don't like somebody because they love their car in a different way from your ideal, is not what these forums are about. The fact they love their car, any car, makes them part of this wonderful hobby.

A guy who saved his car for 40 years and treated it like a queen, would be a nice guy to buy a E9 from.

Just so we are clear, I drive every car I can as often as I can and each and everyone of them looks like a garage queen if you saw them.

Lets try and be nice to a our fellow collectors, no matter what their preference is, we are all here to share a great passion, sometimes in different ways.

Thanks

Pete
 
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BMW Pete

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Even a BAT should/ must have it ALL for that price. A non BAT CSL would be 'newly restored, completely', for all practical purposes, for way less than 330grand!

The White CSL (non BAT) in the Munich area, brand new complete restoration for 289grand.
Another one recently discussed is offering a complete restored golf CSL, in which you can add 'your personal touch/ desires), whilst watching your car take form, for 250grand.
I know personally of a early carb Inka orange CSL with race history/ papers, completely restored with new Alu doors, with only new parts and without patchwork/ bondo, brand new COMPLETE restoration by an absolute CSL expert, for 250grand. 2 months ago, including the car! The price included a 5 spd and a 3.5 ltr triple weber carbs putting out well over 340hp (original engine in a box) etc etc.....,

Just cause a BAT has a VIN that differs, to the extent that it has the large wing or not, cannot be over a 100grand in difference. Even some 4355's city pack CSL's, came without the wing!

Either way, for 330grand, you shouldn't need to take the front end apart to fix obvious problems, only to find more lurking around and then a new paint job too? We all know what happens when we strip a car of its paint, surprises upon surprises.

I have a non BAT CSL. Since I like the macho look of the large wing, I have that on a steel trunk and the original Alu trunk with the ducklip/ rubber spoiler decorating the wall. It's a 4 bolt change. Definitely not worth the 100grand difference.
Keshav

Kesha
Even a BAT should/ must have it ALL for that price. A non BAT CSL would be 'newly restored, completely', for all practical purposes, for way less than 330grand!

The White CSL (non BAT) in the Munich area, brand new complete restoration for 289grand.
Another one recently discussed is offering a complete restored golf CSL, in which you can add 'your personal touch/ desires), whilst watching your car take form, for 250grand.
I know personally of a early carb Inka orange CSL with race history/ papers, completely restored with new Alu doors, with only new parts and without patchwork/ bondo, brand new COMPLETE restoration by an absolute CSL expert, for 250grand. 2 months ago, including the car! The price included a 5 spd and a 3.5 ltr triple weber carbs putting out well over 340hp (original engine in a box) etc etc.....,

Just cause a BAT has a VIN that differs, to the extent that it has the large wing or not, cannot be over a 100grand in difference. Even some 4355's city pack CSL's, came without the wing!

Either way, for 330grand, you shouldn't need to take the front end apart to fix obvious problems, only to find more lurking around and then a new paint job too? We all know what happens when we strip a car of its paint, surprises upon surprises.

I have a non BAT CSL. Since I like the macho look of the large wing, I have that on a steel trunk and the original Alu trunk with the ducklip/ rubber spoiler decorating the wall. It's a 4 bolt change. Definitely not worth the 100grand difference.
Keshav

With respect sir - while I agree at 330k you should not have to do all the work this car needs, the prices of real Batmobiles are where they are because they are and always have been a different animal in the market place to a standard CSL.

The market dictates prices with a simple thing called supply and demand. You personally may not like it, most people may not like it, but its reality.
A real Batmobile, the homologation special for these cars wonderful race history we all love so much, has always been significantly more than the price of a standard CSL, even more than an early carb CSL.

It simply is what it is, until its not - that is :)
 
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Markos

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While I appreciate seeing special collector cars being driven on the road and have much respect for the owners, I completely understand why others would hesitate. Some folks say it's because they are too valuable but that is what insurance is for. Really, they are irreplaceable. For every 10 people that applauded the owner for driving the car, another 10 would call him/her an idiot if the car was totaled by a distracted driver. To each their own. It's not like collectors are scooping up cars that the majority of the population desire to drive to work. These care are out of reach for most - what does it matter if they are driven or garage queens?

Also, ability to replicate may provide much enjoyment, but it's not a 1:1 relationship with value. A CS is never a CSL and a standard CSL is functionally the same as a Bat but it can't be one. Just like art...

"Jackson Pollock’s pictures are very easy, easy enough for a kindergartner..."

- Bruno Alfieri, art critique of the time...
 
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BMW Pete

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Mark,

Love the quote:) I use it often.

Rothko - Pollock - Warhol and so many others, the value is not in the canvas and oil(or silkscreen), that same canvas and oil is available at you local art show at a price more in keeping with the value of canvas/oil and sometimes even time spent. Why one is worth $200 and the other $100 Millon is a sum of imponderables quantified by a market that understands.

Pete
 
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