6-spd gearbox conversion possible? Speedo drive woes...

gyrospita

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Hi folks,
I've recently acquired 2264189, a 3.0CSi. It sat for the last 25 years and will need some work to get it going again. Of course I want to improve what's possible on it so I've read up on the Getrag 265/6 conversions. Good gearboxes are really pricey here in Germany. GS6-53DZ 6-spd gearboxes are readily available for about 600€ and an adapter plate takes care of the mounting on the engine side. I have two questions:

- Does the GS6 fit the tunnel
- How do I take care of the speedo drive if GPS based drive units are a no-no in Germany?

Thanks!
 
Hi folks,
I've recently acquired 2264189, a 3.0CSi. It sat for the last 25 years and will need some work to get it going again. Of course I want to improve what's possible on it so I've read up on the Getrag 265/6 conversions. Good gearboxes are really pricey here in Germany. GS6-53DZ 6-spd gearboxes are readily available for about 600€ and an adapter plate takes care of the mounting on the engine side. I have two questions:

- Does the GS6 fit the tunnel
- How do I take care of the speedo drive if GPS based drive units are a no-no in Germany?

Thanks!
I have no idea if it fits, but it would be nice to know. I think a 6th gear taller than 0.83:1 would be too fast for the use here in California, but may be good for Germany. I had 0.81:1 in my E24 automatic and went 10% shorter by replacing the differential.

There was some discussion recently here on the speedo drive options, and you would have to go electronic speedo input, either from the differential or adding an aftermarket magnetic pickup. I am repeating words I heard but I have never done this myself.
 
The DZ version of this box has a very high 1st year ratio, over 5:1. The BZ version is better at 4:1. The easiest way to do this if you are fine with converting to an electric speedometer is to locate a 5 speed transmission from an e23/24/28, e34 (fitted with M30 engine) as these are all known to fit and have the same (approximately)top gear ratio as the 6 speed
 
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The easiest way to do this if you are fine with converting to an electric speedometer is to locate a 5 speed transmission from an e23/24/28, e34 (fitted with M30 engine) as these are all known to fit and have the same (approximately)top gear ratio as the 6 speed

Technically, gazzol is right. The 6-cyl BMW engine has a wide enough torque band to accommodate its original, 4-speed transmission. The benefit of installing a 5 (or 6) speed transmission is getting an overdrive top gear; not having more closely-spaced ratios.

But gyrospita's issue isn't technical; it's economic. He pointed out that: "I've read up on the Getrag 265/6 conversions. Good gearboxes are really pricey here in Germany." Still, it might be faster/cheaper/easier to pay up for a Getrag 5-speed with a mechanical tach drive than to figure out how to do a 6-speed conversion. Or just retain the 4-speed and install a higher ratio differential.
 
Speedo solution:

https://www.bmw2002faq.com/forums/topic/221329-speedhut-speedbox-on-stock-‘68-speedometer/
 
Possible 6-speed solution (I bought an adapter plate and will someday, try to fit it):

 
A stupid idea I always had is that the speed on a manual is best inferred from the revs and the gear you are in.
Assume the clutch does not slip, and that you do not want to cruise in neutral.

I think this is way better than a GPS.
The issue is that only in an automatic the instruments know what gear you are in, but in automatic you have the viscosity coupling that is not a fixed rev to speed ratio.

So it all comes down to sensing which gear the car is in for manual transmissions, and problem solved. A microphone and some software can easily tell the gear you are in, I think.
 
Best bet for a 6 speed would be one out of a late e34 m5 as the s38 based 3.8 would have the same bolt pattern as an m30. With the cost and complexity of it all though, a good 5 speed OD box would work just as well and has been done countless times before
 
Hey everyone, first and foremost thanks for the participation. Incredible!

Why are GPS speedos not allowed in Germany?
Because our certification gods at TÜV say so. Has something to do with accuracy. For example, when I went from the original 195/70R14 to a 17" on my E28 I couldn't deviate more than 2% in wheel circumference when choosing tires. 215/45 it was. All done to keep the speedo exact.

The DZ version of this box has a very high 1st year ratio, over 5:1. The BZ version is better at 4:1. The easiest way to do this if you are fine with converting to an electric speedometer is to locate a 5 speed transmission from an e23/24/28, e34 (fitted with M30 engine) as these are all known to fit and have the same (approximately)top gear ratio as the 6 speed
Good noticing. I've since spoken to a friend who breaks a lot of E28s and we've tossed ideas. He mentioned that the smaller version of that box is very much enough for our coupes and yes, BZ works better. Have to check the mounting angle, though. Maybe the units from 116i etc. are physically smaller and have the correct angle. The E28 5spd Getrag (I believe 260) are now old and worn and expensive to rebuild, too.

Possible 6-speed solution (I bought an adapter plate and will someday, try to fit it):
The Mazda unit would make it unworthy for historic registration. Too much restomod.

Technically, gazzol is right. The 6-cyl BMW engine has a wide enough torque band to accommodate its original, 4-speed transmission. The benefit of installing a 5 (or 6) speed transmission is getting an overdrive top gear; not having more closely-spaced ratios.

But gyrospita's issue isn't technical; it's economic. He pointed out that: "I've read up on the Getrag 265/6 conversions. Good gearboxes are really pricey here in Germany." Still, it might be faster/cheaper/easier to pay up for a Getrag 5-speed with a mechanical tach drive than to figure out how to do a 6-speed conversion. Or just retain the 4-speed and install a higher ratio differential.
I cannot legally change the gearing ratio of the diff due to changes in emissions that would come from that. I've swapped an E28 to M52 and had to keep the original ratio of the donor car or stay within 7% of that. Luckily, 210 large case diffs came in 3,07 as well.

I didn't (yet) look at the gearing tables for each individual unit. The idea came from finding an offer for an adapter plate for GS6s to M30s. Ideally, I can combine a sporty short gearing with 1.00 in 5th and an overdrive in 6th to essentially combine the 265/5's and 265/6's advantages.

Best bet for a 6 speed would be one out of a late e34 m5 as the s38 based 3.8 would have the same bolt pattern as an m30. With the cost and complexity of it all though, a good 5 speed OD box would work just as well and has been done countless times before

IIRC that's the same gearbox as in manual E31 850is, so 5000€ is the going rate? And just to throw in some more numbers: A 256/6 is 3500€ from the Netherlands, a revised matching LSD is 2200€. So fiddling with a 300-500€ gearbox while retaining original gearing is motivating enough to find a solution for the speedo drive. Maybe a conversion parts package (swap set) can fall off that tree to be sold to all E3, E9, E12, E24 owners.

Pls throw in your recommendations for a technical solution or a speedo pickup and drive unit with and without GPS. Maybe one crazy concidence says that the old speedo drives can be retrofitted somewhere.
 
Because our certification gods at TÜV say so. Has something to do with accuracy. For example, when I went from the original 195/70R14 to a 17" on my E28 I couldn't deviate more than 2% in wheel circumference when choosing tires. 215/45 it was.
Wow! And we think the California emissions regulations are a nuisance.

OK, here's a solution: register it in California. As long as it's pre-1975, pretty much anything goes. :)

Hot-Rod-Factory-Bethel-Minnesota-automotive-website-commercial-industrial-photographer-August+09%2C+2016-www.jcoxphotography.com-064.jpg
 
...And just to throw in some more numbers: A 256/6 is 3500€ from the Netherlands, a revised matching LSD is 2200€. So fiddling with a 300-500€ gearbox while retaining original gearing is motivating enough to find a solution for the speedo drive. Maybe a conversion parts package (swap set) can fall off that tree to be sold to all E3, E9, E12, E24 owners.

Pls throw in your recommendations for a technical solution or a speedo pickup and drive unit with and without GPS. Maybe one crazy concidence says that the old speedo drives can be retrofitted somewhere.
Yes, worthy exploration, go for it and share results.
The other option that may work (yet get you in jail) is to keep a 4-speed Getrag and add a Laycock overdrive to get you 5th gear like Volvos did:

 
"A 256/6 is 3500€ from the Netherlands..."


You can import one from the USA for a lot cheaper than that.

Or from Lithuania (which is much closer):


 
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