74 3.0CS on BAT

Minivansomeren

Minivansomeren

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A commenter said that “euro series 2” cars are good but that the country of origin matters. I’m new to E9s - can somebody explain what the series 2 differences and why the country matters?

bringatrailer.com

Euro 1974 BMW 3.0CS 4-Speed

Bid for the chance to own a Euro 1974 BMW 3.0CS 4-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #207,387.
bringatrailer.com bringatrailer.com
 
I think E911 is one of our members, up in Minnesota.
Long time owner.
US 74 cars have big bumpers, are heavier etc.
As for country of origin, a car delivered new to milder climates like southern Italy, the Middle East, etc usually have less rust than their Northern European counterparts.
 
Richard is referring to 09/73 and later coupes often referred to as facelift or sometimes series 2. I don’t think the later cars are any better although the wiring is a bit more robust and they added a low beam relay. There are white plugs on the inner fenders and Karmann ‘may’ have added some corrosion protection there but who knows. Where it comes from in Europe or elsewhere does matter as countries like Italy are claimed to have a better survival rate like California.
 
Yes, that was me… as Chris mentioned- modest improvements but still improvements in wiring and window motors too(?), adjustable steering column, seat belts and they feel a little tighter as far as build quality. I personally prefer the later interiors as well. Biggest difference is there was actually some attempt by the factory to treat the inner panels with corrosion protection and it did help based on the cars I own and have owned.

Late model euro E9’s like the one listed have small bumpers from the factory and a little more compression so you get the best of both worlds. Only thing better would be a series 2 CSI.

As far as original delivery- a car originally from Italy (which is quite common actually) is the best you can get due to the climate. Anywhere else is a dice roll… 20 years in Italy vs Germany is like comparing a car that spent its early years (as in driven for transportation) in California vs Minnesota.
 
Only a couple hours to go, I'm curious to see what this sells for. Personally I would have been fairly interested in this car as a potential bargain. It is unfortunate for the seller that there is a much nicer coupe that seems to be getting more attention and bids.

I think the lack of fluid in 1 caliper is the biggest issue and will probably hurt the price. But installing a new hardline shouldn't be too expensive, and after that a buyer could do a "rolling restoration" fixing the rough seat upholstery, incorrect mirror, etc as they go. Rust-wise there is a spot on the door, but that doesn't have much potential to become a big structural project. All the structural rust areas were apparently addressed in the 80s, with no rust coming through the old paint.
 
This result of $22K RNM is very surprising...huh? Fixes seem minor even at if it was at $40K. Late model Euro 3.0CS? Strange...buyers are falling like flies in an electric ZAP killer.
 
there is always the 'truth' from physics ... what goes up, always comes down. not wishing for that, its just inevitable, hopefully only minor correction not a drop
 
rsporsche said:
there is always the 'truth' from physics ... what goes up, always comes down. not wishing for that, its just inevitable, hopefully only minor correction not a drop
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Very well said and very true. Without going down the rabbit hole on this, the reason I am scratching my head a bit on some of these recent RNM's or what seem very low selling prices on decent cars (not just E9 coupes) is we aren't in a recession "yet" and no we haven't had a major correction "yet." Will both of those scenarios happen eventually, most likely? Is the AI hype real and can it be monetized, I think so and I think it is here to stay and in early stages. And that affects industries across the board, good and bad.

But the prices have been coming down quite a bit across the board on the vintage/collectible cars, yet the market keeps rocketing up. This could be a tell of a major correction coming soon. A small little tell, but a tell. Hedge accordingly as usual but it could be one of the cracks that is starting to appear in the marketplace in other places.

Then again, I thought the whole financial system was done March, 2000 with the Dotcom bust, yet here we are. Wish for the best, prepare for the worst. Interesting times for sure. Had I not listened to all the doom and gloomers back then I would have made some very different financial decisions that would have paid off in spades by now.
 
I’ll peek my head in the rabbit hole…

Do you think some parts of the car market actually do better when stocks are down, because people are looking to diversify and hedge?

If you look at the Hagerty car indexes, muscle cars dropped during the 2008 recession below their 2006 starting point, and have barely recovered. I would guess that muscle car owners tend to be more blue-collar and may need to sell during a recession to pay other bills.

But the Ferrari, the blue chip, the German induces, while they saw a tiny dip during 2008, they then rocketed up much faster than stocks recovered. Similarly, during Covid, the Ferrari index dropped right at the beginning and bottomed in May 2020. At that point, the stock market was still going up. But then the Ferrari index recovered and continued to do well while stocks dropped. I wonder if that is wealthy people trying to diversify?
 
Arde said:
Weird stuff. The first graph shows the collector car index flat for the last ten year, but the individual category indices show a 3x increase for the same decade. Is this about knowing how to pick the winners of a category?
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Hmm I’m not seeing the flat line? First graph I see is most of the indices overlayed. And yes, it’s really hit or miss. Muscle and 50s American are basically flat for the last 16 years. If you scroll down they have some newer ones not on the overlay - “Rad” 80s, truck and SUV, Japanese, and supercars have all done well. I don’t think that will surprise anyone.

And those indices only track certain models. CSLs are included, along with 2002tii, 507 and M1. But they don’t track regular E9s in that index.
 
Most indices are flat 2015 through 2025. While the CPI experienced a total inflation of 31.40% in that period.
The specific car indices did great (and they have less than 20 models each). So is the conclusion that on the average cars did bad but the creme de la creme did great? That would make sense as it means perhaps that history is kind to a few cars for whatever reason.
 

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Arde said:
Most indices are flat 2015 through 2025. While the CPI experienced a total inflation of 31.40% in that period.
The specific car indices did great (and they have less than 20 models each). So is the conclusion that on the average cars did bad but the creme de la creme did great? That would make sense as it means perhaps that history is kind to a few cars for whatever reason.
Click to expand...
Ok I guess I wouldn’t say flat, so much as… back to where the were 10 years ago. Also I don’t know if the hagerty index factors in inflation? I really can’t vouch for it…

It is weird… from the summer 2021 to summer 2022, the median E9 sale on BaT was 84k, while it’s been 58 over the last year. That definitely isn’t reflected on the Hagerty graphs
 
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