850 ceiling

RogerW

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I guess I will chime in here.....

I ran the CS Register back in the 1990's and am very familiar with the E9. Since that time I have migrated up to the E31 cars. I realize that I just like the larger coupes.

I am currently the President of the BMW CCA E31 Chapter, the very first and only existing BMW CCA Non-Geographic Chapter devoted to a specific model. We are solely dedicated to the E31. I am also one of two North American representatives on the International Board of Directors for 8er.org headquartered in Switzerland, the International 8 series group. Thus, I know the e31 8 market fairly well.

Regarding "regular" E31 prices, they currently are all over the map. I am referring to the 840 and 850. Think of it this way - E9 prices can vary all over the place too. Very well kept examples are very high, trashed cars are low, relatively speaking. So, just like the E9, due diligence is required when purchasing an E31. It was an expensive car in its time. Prices for new cars ranged from upper 70's to over 100K. And this was back in the 90's. Prices seem to range from 5-6K for dogs or pretty worn examples with no service history, to mid-upper 20K and even into the low 30K range on occasion for excellent examples with documented service history.

Regarding 850CSi prices, they took a dip into the 30's, but seem to have rebounded into the 40-50K range. 225 examples were produced for the US market, and overall worldwide production was around 1500, give or take some. The V12 in the 850CSi was hand made by BMW Motorsport, and actually is the lowest production M motor ever made. Some people do not look at the 850CSi as an actual M car, and point to the M8 prototype, but the 850CSi has a distinct BMW Motorsport VIN designation, different from all other 840 and 850 VINs.

Regarding Alpina B12 Coupes, you are talking a completely different and rare animal. Regarding prices for the Alpina B12 Coupes, the car you are referring to is George's car - a member of the E31 group. It is the second Alpina B12 5.0 imported to the US. I have the first B12 5.0 Coupe imported, the only silver B12 5.0 produced, number 45, and it has just over 23,000 miles. I put it through a 2+ year restoration, and it was recently displayed at the BMW Zentrum. George's car is #44, and was imported after my car. The importer I used was 101 Innovations, and he and I brought my car in, petitioned NHTSA to be able to bring in Alpina B12 coupes, and once the petition was acted on and approved, we went through the entire federalization process - which took almost 2 years. George's car was also imported by 101 Innovations. Bill, the owner of 101 Innovations is a long standing member of the E31 community and very well respected.

Alpina made two variations of the B12 Coupe, the B12 5.0, of which 97 were built, and what is considered the "Holy Grail" of the E31 range - the B12 5.7, of which only 57 were produced. Until very recently, the B12 5.7 was the fastest car Alpina had ever produced, with a top speed of just over 190mph.

Since I purchased my B12 5.0 E31 Coupe, Alpina prices have continued to rise. I purchased my car in late 2009 in Japan. I essentially have seen prices double for the B12 5.0 versions worldwide over the past 4 - 5 years. A recent low mileage B12 5.0 example in Europe was priced at 80K Euros. People think it is high, but the market seems to be supporting higher B12 prices. The last two B12 5.7 cars that sold were above $120K. When taken in the worldwide context of Alpina B12 prices, George's car is reasonably priced according to many. Plus it is fully federalized with documentation.

When thinking of Alpina prices, it is best to cross-reference the thought process to the E9 CSL.

The E31 is a complex vehicle, but contrary to belief by some, they are actually fairly straight forward to work on. I am not a mechanic, but do most of my own wrenching, and find the V12 easy to work on, as long as you break it down into components - think of it this way - it is essentially two inline 6 cylinders, joined at the crank so to speak, with a computer for each bank, and a 3rd computer coordinating each bank computer. When you think of it that way, you diagnose each bank separately and it is pretty straight forward. Also, there is a great support group for the E31, just like the E9. I personally prefer the V12, and have owned several. But the V8 is an excellent example too.

E31 cars have issues similar to E9 cars. Most of the issues are with some of the trim pieces - especially in regard to some of the small interior pieces. They are not to the point of the E9 in respect of availability, but there are some NLA parts.

If you continue to look for an 8, please visit our website: BMWCCAE31(dot)com. There are excellent links. Look at the Pre-Purchase Inspection located there. It is an excellent piece developed by our Secretary, Tom "Wuffer" Carter. We primarily utilize Bimmerforums for our E31 discussion group: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?55-8-Series-(E31)

I still miss our E9, but from what I have been told, it is somewhere in a private collection.

All the best in your quest for an E31. The E31 community is very much like the E9 group - a great bunch of people. Both are maybe a little older, and maybe a little more mature than some, but definitely a great group of people. If I can be of any help, please let me know.

Roger
 

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bwalvoord

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Roger. Thank you for that write up. I guess you know from my earlier post that my new quest is all your fault! All joking aside I think these are great looking cars and are approachable especially with the help of an informed support group and parts suppliers.
 

RogerW

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Roger. Thank you for that write up. I guess you know from my earlier post that my new quest is all your fault! All joking aside I think these are great looking cars and are approachable especially with the help of an informed support group and parts suppliers.

We were very honored and proud to be asked to display the Alpina. I think it turned out very nice. Now I just need to drive it! You will find a very helpful group, and recommendations of where to purchase parts from the members. Again, very similar to the E9 crowd.
 

execmalibu

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Late 850Cis with the M73 V12 can be found. Original Owner Blk/Blk Cal Car 85K miles

Last year made Original Owner, Original Paint, Calif Car with only 85K miles and Black on Black. Does it get any better?... Other then if it were a CSi or Alpina.


Craigslist Los Angeles 4/10/15-

1997 BMW 850 CI - Get Your Own Bat Mobile - $15500

Extra clean, Original Owner well maintained Original Black paint, 2 DOOR Sedan 5 SPEED AUTOMATIC car with 85,172 original miles. The inside of this vehicle is smoke-free. The paint is shiny and bright and looks great. Black leather inside is in good condition as well. Clean Carfax available.



Asking only $15,500

I bet that it was bought for a lot less....
 

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BimmerBud

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GREAT WRITE-UP ROGER! Eloquently put and most informative.

I was infected with the beauty of the E31 and THEN met Roger and Marcia who carried this infatuation to another level with their annual E31 Gatherings in Mt. Dora, Florida. That led to the purchase of Roger's 850CSi several years ago and being a dual 850/840 owner for awhile. I just ran out of garage space with the addition of a 2800CS and reluctantly sold my pristine '97 840Ci, keeping the CSi. It is a fine companion to the equally beautiful older coupe and makes for an interesting contrast in driving experiences. Since you are a coupe owner already, you know what to expect with the parts chase, and as Roger stated the E31 group is as a cohesive body as the E9 enthusiasts are.

As someone once said about Dolly Parton, "They're a fine pair" and owning these two wonderful cars will put a smile on your face at every outing. I wish you well with the pursuit and hope you'll be a fellow coupe owner with a "fine pair." Since we're only a little over a 100 miles apart, I'll be glad to help anyway I can. I hope to see you at SharkFest in a couple of weeks.
 

dang

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I Saw a low mile 840ci sell at an insurance auction recently for less than $5k. Fairly easy fix but I couldn't justify it for work.
 

Bez

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Last year made Original Owner, Original Paint, Calif Car with only 85K miles and Black on Black. Does it get any better?....

As our resident E31 expert and owner of no less than six(6) 850i + 850Ci + parts car...Jeff meant to write last year made for North America...worldwide production continued till MY 1999.

The 363 850Ci with the M73B54 engine mated to a 5-spd Steptronic gearbox that were made for North America between MY '95-97 accounted for 5.3% of the total 8er coupes imported to North America.

The M73 850Ci is the lowest production 8-series model and with only 1218 produced units can be considered "rarer" than the CSi, despite being in production for a longer term.

Interestingly, it is noted that North American insurance companies are writing off crashed 8's instead of repairing them. This is resulting in increased attrition rates while increasing future valuations of collectable 8er coupes with clean provenance.

Source: 8Coupe.com
 
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Ohmess

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No, he'll tackle one of these.

He sees two e31s on a regular basis and I asked him whether either owner might want to sell. No luck.
 

bwalvoord

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Thank you. I've got some time to look and it pays to get the word it. Clearly the best advice is to buy one that's been well cared for.
 

execmalibu

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ALL E31s (840Ci 850i-850Ci) are DIY and Very Expensive if you Pay a Mechanic!

My recommendation is that if you are not tooled up with moderate automotive mechanical and electronic experience for DIY repairs then any of the E31s are going to be very expensive to own.

The E31s are very complex electronically and usually have only a few more problems then most German cars, but they are getting old! Many of the failures are age related (Rubber is dried out, Seals failing, Capacitors drying out in electric modules, Electrical Connections corroded etc)

Most BMW mechanics charge $110-$145 per hour. The time to just diagnose (not fix) a problem on any E31 could cost $300-$500. Then if it is electrical module most mechanics will not install a used electrical part because they cannot guarantee the part and if it fails even months later you are going to expect the mechanic to replace it at their expense. Mechanics usually force you to buy new electrical parts only available from the BMW dealer. The modules are expensive! $650-$1,100 each!

What might cost you $200 for a used module and an hour of your time to DIY might cost you $2,000 at a BMW Dealer or Independent Mechanic.

I know this is absolutely true...

In the glove box of an 850Ci I bought last week was a Oct. 2014 Repair Order from Beverly Hills BMW. They charged $857 just to diagnose and replace the weak batteries...

You can buy two new batteries for $90 each =$180 and install both of them in 15 minutes... OR pay $675 extra for the privilege of having the BMW dealer do it for you...
 

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bwalvoord

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Relative to most of the people who frequent this forum, I am not terribly mechanically inclined, but I'm getting there. I also have a very good relationship with a father and son BMW shop where I buy and source all the parts and they do the heavy lifting when I can't. That being said, the real risk is that I buy a car for my wife for which I am now responsible. No biggie if I have to drive the Toyota because I didn't get the car put back together two weeks ago but if I don't get her car back together.....
 
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