advice on costs of restoration

[eastsideM3]

Hello all,
I am considering a restoration project. The car is fairly straight, just has rust in the usual places, and worn looking parts in the engine bay due to age. I would like strip the car down to bare metal, repair the rusted areas, clean and paint the parts, and reassemble the car. Interior is a good 9 out of 10 so doesnt need to much attention. Just looking for some ball park figures of cost. I know you dont know until you open the can of worms, but wanted to get any idea before making a decision. Thanks

 

[jmackro]

I could tell you, but you probably wouldn't believe me!

And honestly, quoting numbers over the Internet would be irresponsible for:
- a car I have never seen
- an owner who hasn't specified how much work he will be doing himself
- a restoration whose scope is not well-defined (how much mechanical restoration?, is goal street or show?, going to rechrome the bumpers and trim?, ...)

I'm not trying to pick on you, but unless you can tell us more and post some photos, just throwing out numbers would be meaningless. I can tell you that you will find more rust and prior accident damage than you expect, and that the final price will come to a lot more than you plan.

 

[eastsideM3]

Thats why I asked you for ball park figures, and I fully understand its hard to tell until you start opening it up, thats why I wrote that in the initial post as well. As far as the car, I havent purchased it yet, but I would like to know what I would be looking at before tackling it. 30-50 for a show car restoration sound right? I wont be doing any of the work myself, I would take it to someone to do all the work. No rechroming is necessary, the car is cosmetically very nice, just rust and engine bay wear from age. Like I said I would like to dissamble the entire car and refresh everything keeping the interior just about 100% as it is currently. Mechanically the car is in very good shape as well, just want everything to look nice and shiny again. :wink:

 

[bert35csi]

Contact Peter @ www.coupeking.com ---He'll point you in the right direction!

 

[acat2002]

from all I've gleaned off this board, $30-$50k is probably the entry-point to a restoration to show-quality if you begin with a complete, almost rust free example. Still, sounds a little on the light side, unless your trusting the work to a "local body shop" (which would probably be a mistake unless they have experience with E9s)

 

[eastsideM3]

No offense to the other two posters, but it would be nice to hear from someone who has actually restored an E9, to get some feedback. Just looking for some feedback on personal experiences. I fully understand that each car is different and there are several levels of restoration.

 

[de coupe]

Cost of Restoration

Great question, But somewhat difficult to answer. 30 to 50 range would be start, a good running start but you may run out of steam. I am at the later and still have to drop off the car at the body shop and give 10 there. If I was going to do it all over again I would set a time line and I would set a price line. Make sure things dont need to be done twice "3.8 lt crank, EFI verse carbs etc etc" Know what you want the end result to be stick with. I do wish you all the best in your build,

 

[gmad]

p.m. sent your way

 

[jmackro]

No offense to the other two posters, but it would be nice to hear from someone who has actually restored an E9, to get some feedback. Just looking for some feedback on personal experiences. I fully understand that each car is different and there are several levels of restoration.

eastside:

I am currently restoring my E9, and have completed the restoration of similar cars. As my friend acat wrote, "$30-$50k is probably the entry-point to a restoration to show-quality". If you are not doing any of the work yourself, expect to be on the high end of this range.

One thing you may not realize is that there is a lot of "while you're in there" expenses while doing a restoration. From your postings, I get the sense that you expect to disassemble things, clean & paint them, and then just reassemble. In fact, a LOT of new parts need to be bought and fitted in the course of disassembly/reassembly. All rubber seals and gaskets that look OK on the complete car will fall apart upon removal, and need to be replaced. These are expensive! Surf the Mobile Tradition website, and tally up some numbers.

Two other resources you might pursue:

- Talk to local classic/European car owners, and ask who the competent restoration body shops are. Go to those shops, and talk with the proprietor. What is his hourly rate? Does he do disassembly - reassembly (which you have indicated that you need), or does he just do metal and paint work? Of course, ask what similar restorations performed in this shop have cost.

- "Sports Car Market" ran an article in the December issue that outlined typical restoration costs for a muscle car. Not an E9, but their numbers seemed reasonable. Their total got into six figures, though this did include a drivetrain rebuild and interior. You can view this article at http://www.sportscarmarket.com/Domestic-Affairs/2008/December// (you may need to establish a user name and password, but that's free).

 

[eastsideM3]

Ok thanks for your advice I will check that out. I certainly wouldnt go through the car that thoroughly and not replace the rubbers, and worn seals. I would hope my investment will payoff sometime this century as well, so sinking 6 digits into the car would not be of interest to me. Further inspection of the car should show how much attention it will need. It would be my intention to replace and update as much as possible, while keeping the interior and motor fairly close to its current condition if its in the condition Im expecting. Thanks again, and keep your comments coming.

 

[Tierfreund]

If your a pure enthousiast with deep pockets, go ahead and do a clean hands (chequebook) restauration. You´ll be burning money though. But we´ll all aplaud and admire you.

If your looking for the joy of driving an E9 find a very good driver and keep it alive..

If you want to make a steal and get the most value for your buck buy a car that has recently been thorougly restored by an enthousiast (who now needs the funds or has lost interest and is onto the next project). Market prices are lower than the cost of restoration.

Unless you find a forgotten Bugatti in a barn, restoring is almost allways a money loosing proposition.

Only trouble is: you need a lot of patience to find a truely well restored car. Since they loose so much money on the sale, ost people will just keep em.

I recently missed the oportunity to buy a perfect, and I mean perfect E3 tha must have kost 40k (€) to restore and was on sale for 20k (€). It was on the market for only a few days.

Toruble is, I allready have an E3 that´s allready cost me 20 and is nowhere near as good. So the perfect one came to pass at the wrong moment.

30-50 k ($) seems about right for complete disassembly / metalworks / paint / reasambly. And then you still have tire mechanicals and details.

 

[simoniko]

hello comrade

I bought a CS three weeks ago , and i am starting the restoration as soon as i put some license plates on it , in my country BULGARIA , the labour is much - much cheaper than in the States , the parts though are the same prices in Europe i think . when i see the little bit sad look of my car i am planing around 10000 EUR for reatoration , in case that i will strip it than put it all together by my self and some little help of my friends !
BUT to be honest guys you have so big oppertunities there in the USA , so big amount of proffesional workshops and matterials to work with , it is a pleasure restoring , down here i will have to invent the hot water ! BUT BMW deserves it , doesnt matter the costs !

 

[HB Chris]

restoration costs

eastside:

Jay is right on, he has seen my coupe and I am at the high end of the range. We all think there is only a little rust until the rocker covers come off, the front quarter panel has that little paint blister we didn't notice before and we find that 1/4 inch of bondo under the rear bumper, then all bets are off. I kept a list of expenses and still can't believe I spent that much money, but, I will keep my coupe forever and I drive it once a week and take the annual trek up to Monterey so it gets enjoyed regularly.

 

[eastsideM3]

Yes I understand completely, thats why Im sure if I take this on, the car will be completely torn down, repaired, painted and put back together. I dont want to keep patching the inevitable, thats why if I do it, I plan to do it right. I just really had no idea of what kind of costs would be incurred. What better place to start than this website?
The car is well preserved cosmetically as said, but there is body rust, and how much Im not sure yet. A follow up inspection next week should uncover more problems. The good news is, the interior is in tact, and I wont be needing to recover seats, replace the carpets, dash or headliner. That in itself should shave down the costs a bit. From what I have gathered on these cars, even if they were garaged their entire lives, with fairly low mileage, they still would rust.

 

[Tierfreund]

They actually started rusting while still on the forecourt at Karmann.

old BMW dealers will tell you stories that they sometimes had rusty streams of water coming out from under the side chrom strips on cars freshly delivered from the manufacturer and started fixing them pre-sales.

It really is that bad

 

[dang]

My simple answer.... based on car and house restoration.

Do your best guess at what you think it will cost, then double it! :wink:

 

[iconoclast6]

Hi,

I think you've rcvd good advice from all, including the prices quoted.

Consider also that the lines are blurred as to where, and when a restoration ends. Many here will testify that there always seems to be something else to do, change or upgrade.

In a similar position as you, I considered Don Defletson's The Werk Shop in Illinois, Matt McGuinn's Sports Car Restoration, in Ct., and CoupeKing in Ca.

I decided to go the CoupeKing route in early '06 because: 1) I was able to slip by his shop, after ostensibly agreeing that a trip to see one of my wife's long lost friends was a great idea, 2) I was able to sign onto a just begun restoration in the color I wanted, and 3) subsequent trips to the West Coast to check on progress would also allow for side trips to La. and Vegas.

This is where we started: http://www.coupeking.com/product_id-309.html

This is how the car was delivered:
http://www.coupeking.com/product_id-369.html

This is where the car was last year:
http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4523&highlight=iconoclast6

Recently, I had the car with Mario Langsten's, VSR in NH
for yet further upgrades/changes.

You'll have to start somewhere, but first you'll have to get a firm sense of what price point you want to start with. I think any of the above will offer great results with a restoration.

Good luck

 

[eastsideM3]

Yes, thanks I have received great information from everyone and I appreciate it. After further inspections, I have decided to pass on the car, its just more of a project than I feel comfortable with. I can see how the numbers would get out of hand, and I would want the car perfect. I think my best option is to find a car that has already been restored. Im sure I can save money that way. Ive been offered a couple original CSL's that appear to be in good shape, but I almost feel better going with a car that has been restored and rust protected to keep from having a deterioating car in the future.