Agave Green

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Mario L.

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Friends,

I thought I'd share a with all of you a new page we just posted on our website. This is a car that we did a year ago, belongs to a member here on E9, and this summer won an award.
I'll let the owner identify himself . . some of you might be able to guess . . . and certainly a few here in the northeast know him.

http://www.vsr1.com/index.php?mact=...&m3fd51albumid=92&m3fd51returnid=110&page=110

This car came to us looking like a show car from 10 feet away, but had a badly rusted sunroof that had been poorly repaired previously, numerous rust spots under body trim and gaskets and the usual host of surprises!
My hat goes off to the owner who gave us the opportunity to do it right!
Thank you, whoever you are !
 
Mario,

nobody should be surprised, it is absolutely gorgeous. congratulations to the owner for selecting a real pro to restore his / her coupe.

cheers - one day, this will happen to my coupe
scott
 
Agave

No doubt, quality painting is part art, part science.

As Mario mentions, this coupe looked great prior to his work, but once stripped, what was underneath was yet another example of what paint can cover up and the reason why its so important to have proper documentation and pictures of the prep work that was done prior to any paint job. Do not take the reputation of any "top rated" resto shop for granted, I don't care who they are. If the shop does not have or will not provide paint prep documentation for your review, assume it was done incorrectly. Frankly, documentation showing proper work should maintain or increase the value of your coupe if you should decide to sell it.

Once properly prepared and finished, the resulting paint quality on this car, as seen at LRP this Fall, was stunning. In fact, the entire presentation of this coupe with its light brown interior is just beautiful. Engine and drivetrain originality aside, I just don't understand why it is not picked as the "coupe outlier" in each show it is entered. I think its that good which is why I was glad that it won this award.

At the risk of sounding like a marketing guy for VSR, Mario's shop has done a number of high quality paint projects including the 2002/M2 variant in Inka which some of you east coast lads may have seen along with Stan's coupe, Duane's Alpina and others. I've had some paint work done at VSR as well and was deathly afraid that it would not match properly with the other finishes. It was done perfectly. You'd never know I've had patched work paint work done a couple of times. Though I'd love a full paint "makeover", that would be a marriage buster for me. Maybe someday.

So kudos to Steve at VSR, a true paint wizard and very highly recommended.
 
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interesting

this is interesting stuff, and i know that mario and others are being vague on the details out of respect for others privacy, which is completely appropriate. but if the owner would be willing to share with us the details of the previous 'restoration', that would be very useful information for the rest of us as we consider future restoration work and shop choices.
imo, one of the best parts of this forum is the sharing of past experiences, so that we can learn from others mistakes - this seems like an important opportunity for that given the potential for vast sums of wasted $'s.
 
TodB, There are shops that have a GREAT Reputation and you do NOT need to know more!

TodB,

I disagree that every restoration needs photos... Not that they are not great to have...

But there are definitely a few restoration shops that will ONLY do repairs one way... The RIGHT way!

If you offered that you were selling a car (ANY Car) that Mario had restored that is all I would have to hear...

I bought a 57 Speedster 25+ Years ago and on the phone the seller rattled off the list of names of the of the Body Shop, Interior Shop, Mechanic etc... (Pino, Tony Nancy, Rod Tasen etc).. I told him I would pay his full asking price without even seeing the car...

And I did... The car was absolutely PERFECT!!!!

The names I posted earlier are of names of the GREAT restoration guys in years gone by... Unfortunately they are ALL now (Hopefully) doing restorations for someone a little higher up... But there are still a few shops around LA that are very good... Coupekings cars look great and currently John Esposito who is primarily a Porsche expert is doing a few E9s... John is an amazing Metal Man and a GREAT painter...

Here is my CSi in primer and a totally stripped to the bone E9 that John is doing... He always pays attention to the tiny details and he is even planning on replacing the tar pieces under the hood then lightly fogging the paint on them like Original..
 

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Jeff, I have to say that I generally disagree with your post. Name recognition is not everything. There are many great shops out there that nobody has heard of... conversely, there are shops that have an undeserved (or out of date) good reputation. As an example, I'm sure that even MotorMeister had a good rep at some point that allowed them to draw in all the later, unhappy customers. Additionally, even when word gets out about subpar work/ethics/etc there is always a group of supporters that will be very aggressive in defense of the shop - despite real, hard evidence.

Just my opinion, but I've modified your quote:
"TodB, There are shops that have a GREAT Reputation. BUT you do need to know more!"

Contrary to my above opinion that evidence is more trustworthy than word of mouth, I give Mario and his crew at VSR an absolute thumbs up. Their work is top notch. I have seen firsthand several "before" and "after" examples of their work - all have been very impressive. My opinion is also based on my own car that has benefitted greatly from the VSR touch. Thanks, Mario!
 
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Wow. Nice and a half.

This shows me the ugly details of all the "little things" and illustrates how a seemingly tiny bit of visual evidence can translate to a "total experience" at the resto shop. My car has "some" of this going on right now in my garage.

So now, scare me.... how much did this niceness cost to the owner? Answer via PM if need be. The answer is largely theoretical as I am presently unemployed, my registration with the County is out of date, and we could hardly be farther apart and still be in the USA.

I note too that at one point the car is parked outside in the snow and slush, don't let Murray see that!
 
Paint covers up everything

I saw this coupe firsthand after it was stripped (of its multiple coats of paint) as well as another one which was in a similar condition once stripped.

Even the best shops may cut corners not because they want to but because the owners budget runs out and they have to. Its been known to happen.

Paint covers up everything.

I always chuckle when I hear about rust free cars from CA. I bought my "rust free" coupe from CA sight unseen which was my fault and I have no one to blame but myself. It wasn't rust free and frankly, I am not sure that folks from CA really know what rust is - no offense intended. That said, my other car I bought from CA was rust free. And Mario fixed the rust on my coupe, BTW.

Paint covers up everything.

I'm not going to be the one who "outs" a sub standard resto or shop unless its my own experience. In the interest of full disclosure, I have not had any contact or work completed with this shop nor do I have anything against them. My point it that you should not solely depend upon the name/reputation of the shop alone as the sole basis for the quality of work on a restoration. I know that sounds non trusting and its up to you if you want to take that risk, but I would require more proof. The good shops always take pictures and are expecting these types of questions anyway and sometimes offer them before you even ask as part of the sales process. Its just good business at the time you buy but maybe even more importantly at the time you sell.

Just because it looks good, doesn't always mean it was done right. Beauty is only skin deep.

Did I mention paint covers up everything?
 
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and another thing

Jeff,

The picture of your stripped coupe is a perfect example of my point. It appears that the prep was done correctly and that there has been a minimum of required body work or filler used which is a testament of the condition of the car, on the drivers side at least :). Who took the pic, you or the fellow that did the work?
 
Here is my spleen speaking:

In the era of Photoshop pictures mean less. Have you seen the Iranian missile launch picture a couple of years ago where 4 of the 5 missiles were cut and paste? Have you seen the Egyptian newspaper where Mubarak was walking in front of Obama in the White House while in reality he was behind? Have you seen all the doctored photos that you cannot detect because they were done by pros? Oh, how I miss the KGB and their crude photomontages.

There is a hospital joke that sums it all.
Doctor to patient: "Bad news is that this shadow you see on the screen is a brain tumor, the good news is that we can remove it with photoshop".

What we need is for insurance companies to start writing rust insurance policies so they will make us whole once **** happens.
 
execmalibu said:
TodB,

I disagree that every restoration needs photos... Not that they are not great to have...

But there are definitely a few restoration shops that will ONLY do repairs one way... The RIGHT way!

If you offered that you were selling a car (ANY Car) that Mario had restored that is all I would have to hear...
Click to expand...

if the restoration was done by the best of the best for a particular car model ... then the answer is - say no more. for instance Tanner for an Austin Healey 3000. I would put Mario's work in that league. the problem is that there are some shops that will tailor their prep work to your budget ... Mario let Stan remove all of the stuff and put it back on ... but i have never heard of Mario cutting corners in his work product. this is what i understand Jeff to be talking about ... when you hear of a car that was done by one of those right people ... buy with confidence. pictures don't hurt for the confidence level of someone spending big money ... but i too would buy a car that Mario restored without hesitation.
 
TodB, You are correct about that a shops quality can change

I guess I have to agree that if a shop looses its best painter or metal man or starts having financial problems that they can and will cut corners...

But in my experience most (not All) of the well known high quality shops turn out a very good product. There are just names that you know you can count on like Mario, Coupeking, LaJolla etc...

I used to use Joe Jorge at Performance Auto Body for 15 years... He restored at least 15 cars for me including my 427 Cobra... I also referred a minimum of 100 people to Joe who were ALL 100% impressed. At the time Joe would look at your car, give you a price and a date when the car would be done... I used to tell people that if Joe says that your car will be done on Dec 1st then you should have your check book ready on November 30th.

But alas Joe went broke and lost everything including his house:(...

Also there is what I call Calif rust... That rust might be some very small areas with minor bubbling here or there after 40 years but NO serious chassis rot... On a Porsche 356 the battery box might be shot and on 911s the front suspension pan could be rotten both damage is caused by battery acid... If these are the only areas with rust most Porsche experts would still say the cars are basically rust free...

BTW I took the photo of my CSi in primer I have a couple more photos...
 
Jeff, the difference in the conversation is excellent vs. high quality (read very good). as you said, "ONLY do repairs one way... The RIGHT way!" ... that is an excellent shop. there are many very good california shops that cut corners ... some of those shops might not spend the same amount of time on their car vs. your car. i would never put Mario in that category.

please understand that i am generalizing to make a point and not specifically calling anybody out here.
 
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