Air Suspension

Ian_fegan

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Hi all,

My body work guy threw another curve ball my way today, suggesting I consider installing air suspension in my 3.0 CSi as it will be easy to do during a full restoration. He is quoting EURO€1,400 ($1,485) to do this job.

While I am not inclined to take him up on his offer, I thought I would just throw it out there to see if anyone has any thoughts on this one way or another.

He sees the ability to lower the car as a benefit where I don't really want the car to heavily modified. He also points to better ride and handling which I am willing to concede as a possible benefit.

Any thoughts?

Ian.
 
i have no idea ... i just can't get the idea of cars sitting on their rockers out of my head ... and leaping up like a dog to go out for a run. i guess i'm too old fashioned to like the idea. the furthest that i have gone away from stock was to consider ground control coil overs.

for someone who might know more about air suspension than i do ... how much added pressure would this type of system put on the old body of a coupe (thinking rust prone weakness)
 
Disclaimer I have never had airbags. I've always been intrigued by them going back to when I was into off-roading.

I think the adjustability claim is true, although you still need to do other things to accommodate the bags. Roll the fenders, adjust the camber in the rear, etc. That is if you want to go really low or have big wheels.

Handling, I would say no. There are a few novel (and expensive) and autocross/racing airbag setups. In general, there is a reason why you don't see airbags on race cars. That includes handling and the dynamics of a system failure while racing.

I would say that airbags work better than the haters argue and not nearly as well as the fan boys assert. Good enough for a daily driver. Keep in mind that you are adding complexity to a simple car. Compressor, air tank, relays, switches, air lines, etc.

Most of the opinions on air bag setups come from people like me who have never run them. :)
 
Thanks Markos,

I have had airbags in a Range Rover and consider myself lucky to not have had trouble with them. I also had a Mercedes CL500 on hydraulic suspension which was a dream to drive with excellent handling... That said, I agree with your assertion of adding complexity... I think I will be passing on this... I don't want to be that guinea pig!!
 
i wonder if that really low stancework coupe had air suspension. it was really low with very wide tires
 
I have air bags in my Range Rover, and had them previously in an Audi Allroad. To my thinking, they are more trouble than they are worth. The OEM bags have a five year life. And the compressor lasts only a little longer (I just replaced the compressor in my Range Rover).

Having the Allroad hunker down at speed was cool, but the only really practical use for these systems is to raise a vehicle when going offroad.
 
i wonder if that really low stancework coupe had air suspension. it was really low with very wide tires

Mike Burroughs's polaris car didn't have bags (at the time of the article anyway). Chris (from Eibach edit: H&R) has the low black car and that is undoubtedly on eibach edit: H&R springs. CSKid (member) has the low Malaga. I'm pretty sure he is running coilovers front and rear.
 
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Mike's Polaris e9 didn't have bags when it looked like this:
E9-3.jpeg

But he bagged it later, this is what he wrote in another forum:
"The suspension is an AirLift universal setup with a sleeve bag and a Chevy 2500 full size front strut in the back. The ride is legitimately phenomenal and rides like a cadillac, far better than I could have hoped for."
2bd8b1e4b0f7e01845aa552c48a73388.jpeg

I personally would never install bags on an e9, I like the idea of keeping it simple, if you need/want adjustable height just go with a set of coilovers and be done with it:)

Cheers,
 
I am thinking about it but likely years down the road.

Coil overs don't allow you to raise the car to get in your driveway, or compensate for passengers....both of those would be useful for me.
 
my 911s has PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) ... and its an electronic dampening control system for the suspension. it lowers the car either 1cm or 2cm, depending on which button you press, this tightens up the suspension for a sportier / firmer ride. while it doesn't raise the suspension to get you out of your driveway ... it greatly improves the handling when you are on a track or road. the latter can be jarring depending on how big the potholes are. this is a complicated system to try to put on a coupe ... but i have to say that i love how it works.

putting an air suspension on seems like a way to make a cushy ride ... not a sportier ride.
 
I am thinking about it but likely years down the road.

Coil overs don't allow you to raise the car to get in your driveway, or compensate for passengers....both of those would be useful for me.

Instead of going with bags, you could also use the smaller pneumatic cups that you put on top of your regular coilovers in the front, which allows you to lift the front of the car about 2 inches when you need it.
I don't know if this is enough for you to access your driveway. Not meant to compensate for passengers. Maybe you already know about this option, but just a thought.

1_G.jpeg
 
Why bother?
Will it improve the car?
See current thread on Iraqi E9.
Would you improve a Renoir?
Would you mod a GTO, a 246, 507?
 
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My body work guy threw another curve ball my way today, suggesting I consider installing air suspension in my 3.0 CSi as it will be easy to do during a full restoration. He is quoting EURO€1,400 ($1,485) to do this job.

He sees the ability to lower the car as a benefit where I don't really want the car to heavily modified. He also points to better ride and handling which I am willing to concede as a possible benefit.


Replacing suspension parts with non-traditional system is not a restoration. Restoration suggests making like new again. Perhaps the proposed work is better described as a rebuilding with modifications. Not to dissuade you from doing anything you please, but if air bags are being considered, why not adapt a suspension from a newer model, along with the newer model's drive train?

One could argue that the manufacturer once "toyed" with an air suspension on the E3 "Nivomat." It would be interesting to know how many of these systems are still using the nivomat shocks, or for that matter, whether they are currently available. These were not compatible with the E9, although I have heard of at least one attempt to retrofit them. That same experiment morphed into a set of aftermarket rear adjustable air shocks where the height could be controlled by adding air pressure to a shared schrader valve hidden in the trunk. In other words, there was little, if any, additional plumbing and hardware, i.e., compressor, tank and wiring to the compressor.

Additional considerations include the longevity of the typical air bag system. I dare say, they probably do not equal the typical lifespan of the stock suspension or other traditional (stock-like) aftermarket suspension parts, e.g., Bilsteins or Konis. One modification worth considering that is comparable or superior to the traditional suspension setup, would be coil over shocks, which provide some of the best of both worlds, including adjustability (height and damping) and weight reduction.

It is unclear whether each suspension corner using an airbag is independently controlled or whether it is merely the front versus the rear. If one corner develops a leak, leveling the suspension could become problematic. And, if one bag goes bad, would that necessarily require replacement of the other bag on the same axle?

Another consideration is what stock parts, e.g., spring perches, are "permanently" removed with the installation of an air bag suspension, and for that matter, what parts are permanently added for the air bags. I suppose all modifications are reversible if you don't mind re-engineering the chassis and undertaking some metal work, but some modifications are easier to reverse than others. This could pose an issue for any potential sale to someone seeking "stock" or stock "with acceptable upgrades."

While I have nothing against air bag suspensions, air bags were the source of significant frustration for a few former Lincoln owners, after suspensions developed issues out of warranty. Riding like a Cadillac may not be what you are after either. A "boulevard" ride is one thing, but Fleetwoods, Broughams, Coupe De Villes and Eldorados hardly conjure thoughts of taught, crisp and responsive handling. But there is something to be said for a wide bench seat if you feel like a nap.


439207_kadilak_siksti-tu_kupe_de_1680x1050_(www.GetBg.net).jpg
 
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There is a great reason to put air suspension in the e9 and that is so you can do the "hop" when driving down the boulevard, imagine all the people clapping as you bounce up and down and side to side with my favorite NWA music thumping in the background and all the girls on the corner goin woooohoooo!!!

But, I think our Iraq friend has us all beat so better not try to compete with him :-)
 
Replacing suspension parts is not a restoration. Restoration suggests making like new again. Perhaps the proposed work is better described as a rebuilding with modifications. Not to dissuade you from doing anything you please, but if air bags are being considered, why not adapt a suspension from a newer model, along with the newer model's drive train?

One could argue that the manufacturer once "toyed" with an air suspension on the E3 "Nivomat." It would be interesting to know how many of these systems are still using the nivomat shocks, or for that matter, whether they are currently available. These were not compatible with the E9, although I have heard of at least one attempt to retrofit them. That same experiment morphed into a set of aftermarket rear adjustable air shocks where the height could be controlled by adding air pressure to a shared schrader valve hidden in the trunk. In other words, there was little, if any, additional plumbing and hardware, i.e., compressor, tank and wiring to the compressor.

Additional considerations include the longevity of the typical air bag system. I dare say, they probably do not equal the typical lifespan of the stock suspension or other traditional (stock-like) aftermarket suspension parts, e.g., Bilsteins or Konis. One modification worth considering that is comparable or superior to the traditional suspension setup, would be coil over shocks, which provide some of the best of both worlds, including adjustability (height and damping) and weight reduction.

It is unclear whether each suspension corner using an airbag is independently controlled or whether it is merely the front versus the rear. If one corner develops a leak, leveling the suspension could become problematic. And, if one bag goes bad, would that necessarily require replacement of the other bag on the same axle?

Another consideration is what stock parts, e.g., spring perches, are "permanently" removed with the installation of an air bag suspension, and for that matter, what parts are permanently added for the air bags. I suppose all modifications are reversible if you don't mind re-engineering the chassis and undertaking some metal work, but some modifications are easier to reverse than others. This could pose an issue for any potential sale to someone seeking "stock" or stock "with acceptable upgrades."

While I have nothing against air bag suspensions, air bags were the source of significant frustration for a few former Lincoln owners, after suspensions developed issues out of warranty. Riding like a Cadillac may not be what you are after either. A "boulevard" ride is one thing, but Fleetwoods, Broughams, Coupe De Villes and Eldorados hardly conjure thoughts of taught, crisp and responsive handling. But there is something to be said for a wide bench seat if you feel like a nap.


439207_kadilak_siksti-tu_kupe_de_1680x1050_(www.GetBg.net).jpg
Great post! Captures my own thoughts very elaborately!
 
I think if you are going to do a full custom like Cole Foster then it is definitely a valid option.

But anything that wants to respect or follow the original spirit of this car would look and feel really out of place with bags.
 
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