Bangle quits! I might consider buying a new BMW again!

[duane_sword]

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/03/controversial-bmw-designer-quits/

Great news in these tough economic times!

I might even consider buying the first non-Bangle BMW when it rolls off the production line just to stimulate the economy and BMW stock!

 

[DJSimca]

Good news indeed

 

[chicane]

Ding Dong....

 

[Tierfreund]

I beg to respectfully disagree.

While some Bangle designs are dreadfull (7series), some mediocre (5series), others are truely brilliant only just way ahead of their time (first Z4, 6series).

In 30 years everyone will be laughing about the Z3 with it´s lousy proportions and mainstream detailing but we will be lusting for the original Z4

And the 6series will be the E9 of the 2020s

Overall though, before Bangle BMW had very handsome cars but nowhere to go from there. The E46 coupe is beautifull, but it was the best that desing language could get to. There was nowehere to go from there but radically different.
Whitout Bangle BMW would not be the appealing brand it is today. There is a reason why one of the most successfull brands has kept this designer on for 17 years...

Just my little 2 eurocents...

 

[chicane]

I beg to respectfully disagree.

While some Bangle designs are dreadfull (7series), some mediocre (5series), others are truely brilliant only just way ahead of their time (first Z4, 6series).

In 30 years everyone will be laughing about the Z3 with it´s lousy proportions and mainstream detailing but we will be lusting for the original Z4

And the 6series will be the E9 of the 2020s

Overall though, before Bangle BMW had very handsome cars but nowhere to go from there. The E46 coupe is beautifull, but it was the best that desing language could get to. There was nowehere to go from there but radically different.
Whitout Bangle BMW would not be the appealing brand it is today. There is a reason why one of the most successfull brands has kept this designer on for 17 years...

Just my little 2 eurocents...

The Z4 coupe is the only Bangle creation that I really like. I really don't think he had a hand in the E46. The new 7 and 5 series cars are abominations and the sad parade of bloated land yachts that have come out of Munich will, I believe be a black eye for BMW.

 

[duane_sword]

I respect that taste is individual, thankfully, otherwise we would all be driving Hyundai....

but as far as styling under the Bangle era is concerned it wasn't just the exterior styling that troubled me, it was the over-engineering on the electronics and taking away the pure driving experience.

As I have posted in a separate link, I am selling my E34 M5 ($15k if you are interested) and it is a fantastic driver's car. I am also lucky to have owned the E39 M5 and it was thoroughly engaging and keeps the driver tuned in to the dynamics of the ride... I have also driven the E60 M5 and though I find the exterior styling to be akin to the Pontiac GTO (or the Australian Holden Monaro) I found the electronic driver 'aids' to be entirely annoying and the iDrive to be the singlemost frustrating thing next to Saab's unique nonsense with the key entry and gauges.

Styling and driver engagement went down under the Bangle era for my taste... but it must be said that the market share and car-sales under the Bangle era went up... so it therefore means that I am wrong

 

[chicane]

I respect that taste is individual, thankfully, otherwise we would all be driving Hyundai....

but as far as styling under the Bangle era is concerned it wasn't just the exterior styling that troubled me, it was the over-engineering on the electronics and taking away the pure driving experience.

As I have posted in a separate link, I am selling my E34 M5 ($15k if you are interested) and it is a fantastic driver's car. I am also lucky to have owned the E39 M5 and it was thoroughly engaging and keeps the driver tuned in to the dynamics of the ride... I have also driven the E60 M5 and though I find the exterior styling to be akin to the Pontiac GTO (or the Australian Holden Monaro) I found the electronic driver 'aids' to be entirely annoying and the iDrive to be the singlemost frustrating thing next to Saab's unique nonsense with the key entry and gauges.

Styling and driver engagement went down under the Bangle era for my taste... but it must be said that the market share and car-sales under the Bangle era went up... so it therefore means that I am wrong

Nuff said. I agree totally. The new cars have ELECTRONIC STEERING and do not even have dip sticks. The iDrive is horrible and the entire dash designs leave me cold...bye bye Bangle.

 

[Tierfreund]

I fullheartedly agree about the idrive, active steering and such nonsense (though ABS and ESP (DSC) are fine features as long as at least the ESP can be turned of).
A modern M5 with 12 different gearbox settings, three power modes, three suspension settings and so on would just make me want to shout at the repsonsible engineer: "Do your job, make a choice and let me do the driving!"

But for the sake of the clarity of the thread, those things were not introduced because of Bangle, but simply while he was with with BMW. An important distinction. I really don´t think he designed the idrive or the suspension. I don´t think he could....:lol:

Anyway, simply put, I personally feel that much of the spite Mr. Bangle gets for his designs is unjustified. His work is more radical and more avantgarde than the consumer clinic approach of other manufacurers. Sure, sometimes things go wrong if you have one very strong leader, but overall it makes for a more interesting trip. To the point: I´d rather have the worst Bangle car (the outgoing 7), than ANY Pontiac, any Buick, any Nissan (yes, including the GT-R), and Toyota, and any other brand I can´t even get myself to think of.

A little anecdote: Since my E3, my only car, is currently undergoing partial restoration, I´m stuck to renting cars. At first, since the resto will cost a bit, I rented the cheapest set of wheels I could find. A Nissan Micra (please don´t laugh, and no, I´m not a girl, a hairdresser or gay).
Nothing wrong with that car at all. Works fine, is cheap, does what it should. In short, I drove it for a week and got a major depression.

So, I gave it back, doubled my budget, and rented a BMW Mini. Right from the start plenty of things that annoy me. The stupid keyfob, the awkward visibility out front (I need to look at the traffic lights out of the sunroof), the Satnav monitor that can´t be turned of, the annoying exhaust note, the stupidest switch ever in a car (that changes the colour of the interior mood lighting (talk about a hairdressers car...)) and a speedo that is simply impossible to read at a glance!

In short, I get angry at the Mini all the time. But I do not get depressed. Instead I find myself on the website configuring my personal one.

I guess what I´m trying to say in way too many words: If I ever meet Bangle in person, I know I´ll be talking to a nutter, but I will buy him the nicest beer I can find and give him a friendly pat on the back.

I believe BMW has been far better off for having him on board.


P.S. please don´t tell my Bav about the Mini. We´re just friends, I swear, but she wouldn´t understand...

 

[Tierfreund]

@chic, I know Bangle didn´t do the E46. That´s what I meant. The E46 coupe was the last and the best of the old BMW design school. One of the prettiest BMWs of all times, me thinks.
But that´s the point. It couldn´t really be improved (it even deteriorated with the facelift). They took that language as far as it could go and needed a radically fresh start. And who better for a really fresh and radicall makeover than Mr. B....
:roll:

 

[NewSixCoupe]

I think I can go so far as to credit the rear end of the Z4, which I feel has somewhat successful proportions and harmony of line, but that's about it. As far as his "flaming surfaces" guiding philosophy design-speak, as an industrial designer, to me its just a load of BS. I heard plenty of that in school...

 

[x_atlas0]

I'd like to see a return to the original design cues that stemmed from our car's time. Thin kidneys, 4 seperate lights, window kink, front opening hood, and perhaps most importantly, the shark nose. These cues pretty much defined a BMW until the E36. After that, it just got "mushier" and the cues became less and less accented. I miss the individuality that seperated the BMW cars from anything else of the time. Heck, I can't think of anything else that looked remotely like an E28 from that time period, as an example. You saw it, you knew exactly who made it. You didn't even have to see the badge. Same went for everything up to the E36. The E46 looks more like an earlier Audi A4 than an E30.

Today, you have to look and know what to look for to really tell. Heck, the E9x cars look more like an older Camry than an E30. They are fantastic to drive, but they just aren't distinctive anymore.

MB has the same problem. They lost their design signatures in the late 90s, and only now they are getting it back, although all their new cars look like they've been squished to me.

Granted, making the cars more homogenous has drastically improved sales, but I'm not sure it has improved profitability. Also, it has dilluted the brand to the point of irrelevance. MB has the same problem. Do you think the MB of 30 years ago would have even considered making the B-class? Heck no! Would BMW of 30 years ago have ever considered making the X3? Not a snowball's chance in Hell. Both companies had a specific series of design goals and values. If the car you wanted didn't fit those values, go buy another car. Now, however, they are trying to make every car for every person. I wish they had stuck with the Porsche mentality, although even they have compromised with the Cayenne. Plus, they priced themselves almost into supercar territory. Of course, given that a new 7 series is now a 6 figure proposition, BMW can't exactly say much there, either.

In terms of the new direction of design, I can only hope it will be a return to the traditional BMW design cues, without softening the package. We saw that with the jellybean E39.