CSi Starter Removal Guide?

[TG-2002-320i-328ci]

I had to park up my '73 CSi a month early this year due to the starter failing. I'm in Arizona, so my driving season is pretty much the opposite of most everyone else on this board - hibernation starts now and ends around mid-September.

Question - I've searched the forum, but have not found a definitive guide as to what parts I have to remove from the top end of my engine/cooling system to get good access to my dead starter. I have searched through volume 1 and 2 of my "blue bibles" and cannot find a step-by-step. I then went to my Chilton "BMW Coupes And Sedans 1970-88 Repair Manual" and found the attached (hilariously brief) result.

Bonus Question - I'll probably send in my old starter as a core, or possibly have it rebuilt. I haven't decided just yet. If I have to remove coolant system parts, I am going to flush the system and replace the water pump/thermostat/hoses while the coolant system is empty. I may have to leave the engine empty of coolant for a few weeks while I part-time work on this project. The question is - is it okay to keep the system empty of coolant for a few weeks? Obviously, the engine will not be turned over at all until everything is back together.

Thank you in advance, E9 board participants.

 

[sfdon]

re-installing that vintage starter from hell can be a bad idea.

You should consider replacing that nasty oversized worn out unit with a fresh svelte later model.

This only on FI cars like yours.


the old....

Starter (Rebuilt)
$528.56 list
$125.08 current price

Part Number: 12411272150

OUT OF STOCK




The new...

SR444x

Bosch (OE Reman) Starter | SR444X​

BMW 750iL, 850i, 850Ci, 850CSi

$118.99
Reg
$123.95
+Core
$50.00

Bosch (OE Reman) SR444X Starter - BMW | 12411468117 12411720246 85411296696 W01331603016

Find Bosch (OE Reman) Starter SR444X at discount prices in our extensive BMW auto parts catalog. AutohausAZ offers a large selection of Bosch (OE Reman) parts online. 1 per car. Fits BMW 750iL, 850i, 850Ci, 850CSi. 12411468117 12411720246 85411296696 W0133-1603016

www.autohausaz.com

 

[Thomas76]

To access starter remove engine. I kid...
A homemade modified wrench will go a long ways in helping access the nuts. Good advise above with sourcing a better starter from newer model. Higher rpm, more torque, and smaller diameter.

 

[TG-2002-320i-328ci]

Thanks - I have bought a few tools I read about in previous threads - and mentally wrote them off as one-off purchases in the event I need to further modify/grind them.

I did buy an SR444X knock-off, but I've also read they have a high failure rate. And, yes, Bosch ones seem to be out of stock everywhere. I do know of an E28 sitting in a wrecking yard in my city. Perhaps it still has its SR444X starter and I can have it rebuilt? I'll check that out this week.

 

[TG-2002-320i-328ci]

re-installing that vintage starter from hell can be a bad idea.

You should consider replacing that nasty oversized worn out unit with a fresh svelte later model.

This only on FI cars like yours.


the old....

Starter (Rebuilt)
$528.56 list
$125.08 current price

Part Number: 12411272150

OUT OF STOCK




The new...

SR444x

Bosch (OE Reman) Starter | SR444X​

BMW 750iL, 850i, 850Ci, 850CSi

$118.99
Reg
$123.95
+Core
$50.00

Bosch (OE Reman) SR444X Starter - BMW | 12411468117 12411720246 85411296696 W01331603016

Find Bosch (OE Reman) Starter SR444X at discount prices in our extensive BMW auto parts catalog. AutohausAZ offers a large selection of Bosch (OE Reman) parts online. 1 per car. Fits BMW 750iL, 850i, 850Ci, 850CSi. 12411468117 12411720246 85411296696 W0133-1603016

www.autohausaz.com

Just noticed they are back in stock... Hitting the "buy" button now!

 

[Thomas76]

Thanks - I have bought a few tools I read about in previous threads - and mentally wrote them off as one-off purchases in the event I need to further modify/grind them.

I did buy an SR444X knock-off, but I've also read they have a high failure rate. And, yes, Bosch ones seem to be out of stock everywhere. I do know of an E28 sitting in a wrecking yard in my city. Perhaps it still has its SR444X starter and I can have it rebuilt? I'll check that out this week.

My back and knuckles would say buy the nicest one ya can cause it is a slow painful job. I couldn't believe how long it took me to remove two nuts.
If memory serves me correctly the smaller diameter of the modern starter is just enough to allow socket on reinstall, which was monumental.

 

[TG-2002-320i-328ci]

My back and knuckles would say buy the nicest one ya can cause it is a slow painful job. I couldn't believe how long it took me to remove two nuts.
If memory serves me correctly the smaller diameter of the modern starter is just enough to allow socket on reinstall, which was monumental.

I have been looking at used M30B34s and B35s to rebuild over the summer and possibly drop-in... perhaps I should just commit to that? I love my old M30, but another upgrade I have considered is retrofitting an A/C system and a Getrag 265. I wouldn't want to run an A/C on the original (and getting tired) M30.

 

[bluecoupe30!]

I dreaded this job. probably mostly because I don't enjoy dealing with the coolant drain part. Always messy, just does not flow directly into pans and finds a way to track along the chassis and puddle in many other areas. My car still has original M30, and 2 Weber 32/36 carbs. I found if I removed the solenoid from the starter, I could unbolt the original starter and draw it up around the carbs and out. Reassembly, the reverse, as they say. But the tool that really helped access the starter bolts was called an "obstruction wrench" when I bought it, and that, plus the thin 19 mm open end wrench from the trunk tool kit, made the job go relatively easily. Tried to upload photo of wrench, but apparently, too large.

 

[TG-2002-320i-328ci]

I dreaded this job. probably mostly because I don't enjoy dealing with the coolant drain part. Always messy, just does not flow directly into pans and finds a way to track along the chassis and puddle in many other areas. My car still has original M30, and 2 Weber 32/36 carbs. I found if I removed the solenoid from the starter, I could unbolt the original starter and draw it up around the carbs and out. Reassembly, the reverse, as they say. But the tool that really helped access the starter bolts was called an "obstruction wrench" when I bought it, and that, plus the thin 19 mm open end wrench from the trunk tool kit, made the job go relatively easily. Tried to upload photo of wrench, but apparently, too large.

Yep. Have those wrenches. Also know about how the bolts need to be replaced with stems...

 

[HB Chris]

Drain coolant, remove expansion tank and cooling hoses, you can get to it. I used the 17mm box wrench in tool kit but the curved horse shoe shaped box wrench would be even easier.

 

[Gransin]

I had no luck with the SR444X starter on my CSi, the starter solenoid hits the coolant water pipe under the intake manifold. This was not a Bosch unit, so I don't know if it makes a difference?
I went with the smaller SR441 in the end, works great.
I was able to replace the starter without removing/draining anything except for the engine - chassis ground wire.
Lots of patience and pain, of course.

I had to make a special tool to be able to reach the bolts, after grinding down the wrench it was too weak and the "jaws" just gave after before the bolts did, so I had to do some additional welding to make it stronger to finally get the bolts loose. I have the recommended spanners but somehow they did not fit, maybe because I didn't remove enough stuff around the starter.

Installing the small SR441 is a sweet dream compared to dealing with the bulky stock starter.

 

[sfdon]

I think you are correct.
we replace the water pipe with rubber hose.

 

[bavbob]

Does this hold for a Csi? It certainly did for my CS:

"And now I found this from HB Chris:
The only caution I have is that the SR-71x, SR-440x and SR-441x all fit but the terminals have one minor difference. If you still run the ballast resistor with your coil your current starter has a terminal that sends "switched" power to the coil. With a permanent magnet starter this isn't needed but if you hook it up to a terminal that is hot your ballast will glow cherry red! I think my 441 did this, just don't connect that bypass"

 

[HB Chris]

Get the SR-441