CSL - changes during production runs <DRAFT>

[rsporsche]

hi guys,

i have been working on a CSL document for the FAQ - i have attached a draft to ask the CSL population to pick apart / verify. i have sent this to a couple of well known CSL experts but have only heard a few comments.

let the discussions begin

thanks
scott

 

[E911]

"The interior was black only with Scheel Mann 100 seats in black fabric with fabric headrests - both with vinyl sides / bolsters"

My lightweight did not/does not have headrests but you can feel the receiving holes through the fabric where they can be installed.

 

[Wes]

hi guys,

i have been working on a CSL document for the FAQ - i have attached a draft to ask the CSL population to pick apart / verify. i have sent this to a couple of well known CSL experts but have only heard a few comments.

let the discussions begin

thanks
scott

Pretty sure carb cars didn't come with a 38 Petri, that was later, but with a Prototip wheel?

 

[rsporsche]

Wes, thanks for your comment.

i originally had the Alpina / Momo Prototipo wheel listed as the original in the first draft, followed by early carb cars with Alpina / later ones with the Petri ... and i was talked out of it. i have seen several early 2275 cars that also had the Alpina wheel. this is exactly why we are having these discussions.

@E911 - not sure about the headrests - i have seen many photos of scheels without the headrests ... but haven't seen detail pics of what you have described. i always assumed they had just been pulled out. anybody else have any experience with this

 

[Keshav]

AFAIK…….
Momo Alpina steering wheels for carb CSLs and leather bound 38cm Petri for the 2275’s. If I’m not mistaken, the late carb CSLs and the early 2275’s were both available/ produced at the same time therefore the wheels could possibly be ordered individually thus the overlap……

Headrests…..early carb CSLs without headrests, later cars with…. possibly when the side stripes and the trunk Csl emblems were introduced. Might have had to do with the very basic ‘ultralight philosophy‘?
I also noticed that most RHD CSLs didn’t have headrests either……. couldn’t have been due to the ultralight configuration.

 

[eriknetherlands]

I believe the fenders were also 0.6 mm thickness, not only the roof. std gauge was 0.8mm.

The rear tail panel (valance?) was also made as a thin guage (still have such a CSL specific one for sale!). I'm guessing here; was that used from the begin of CSL production start?

The yellow comment in your list "were the holes for bumper bracket filled in?" is a negative: the CSL specific thin guage rear panel has no holes for the bumper brackets (If you mean the the vertical chrome pieces with rubber blocks on them under the bumper)
Grey is CSL - black is std e9 part

 

[eriknetherlands]

wrt to this one: "The rechargeable flash light (in the glovebox) was deleted"

I think that wasn't installed even in std e9's in the first years was it? If so, this isn't a difference - both didn't have the flashlight.
If i remember well the flashlight came later somewhere post 74?

another nerdy detail: Suspension uses progressive springs - 20cm lower stance -> i hope it's 20 mm, otherwise they would be belly-on-the-ground

FYI: Swiss delivered cars (should) always have been delivered with steel doors as it was required by law there.

 

[eriknetherlands]

this may be an interesting addition:
All the CSLs had the trapezoidal mirrors up to and including the last series Bat2 chassis 4355036.
Gerrit

CSL Mirror

Does anyone know if '73 Euro CSLs had a flag mirror or the trapezoidal mirrors? My '73 CS has the trap mirror and I thought all '73 cars had them. thanks Chuck

e9coupe.com

 

[Keshav]

this may be an interesting addition:
All the CSLs had the trapezoidal mirrors up to and including the last series Bat2 chassis 4355036.
Gerrit

CSL Mirror

Does anyone know if '73 Euro CSLs had a flag mirror or the trapezoidal mirrors? My '73 CS has the trap mirror and I thought all '73 cars had them. thanks Chuck

e9coupe.com

In the current sale pics of 4355036, it’s sporting a flag mirror!

 

[eriknetherlands]

ha, good catch!

 

[rsporsche]

yes it does, but did it have one originally ... that is the real question. 036 has been restored. early pics i have seen of 002 had a flag. 016, 022 and 033 have traps. but i didn't see them in 1974 ... and i trust Gerrit - much more experience in this matter than what i see in pics. if i was restoring a Bat 2 right now and i had a choice, install a BMW flag mirror or a new repro trap mirror, i think i would go with the actual BMW part. but i would think the correct thing to do would be to find an original trap mirror and refinish it.

 

[rsporsche]

new subject of the day for the CSL faithful

we know that most 2275 cars were city pack cars. the current thought is that most Bat 1 + 2 cars were mostly city pack cars ... but there are some outliers that had mostly lightweight features. do we have any sense / knowledge of any Bats with lightweight features. my understanding is that it was possible to order a Bat with lightweight features, just not the trunk lid as it had to support the rear wing.

any knowledge here?

 

[rsporsche]

In the current sale pics of 4355036, it’s sporting a flag mirror!

this car raises good questions

- plastic coolant reservoir or metal reservoir? we know the regular 74 CS / CSi had plastic ... i have heard that it should be metal
- flag vs. trap mirrors?
- black screws on the air dam or silver screws?
- has the black fiberglass rear bumper and the black rear valance - very curious if that was correct for a basically city pack car. i know 033 has a black rear valance, but it is primarily a lightweight from birth. i have read that 2275 cars that were city pack cars had body color rear valances - curious if this was a distinction?
- seems odd to have 16" Alpina wheels on a Bat
- a/c ... obviously an option ... very curious if it was factory or installed afterwards
- very curious about the black stripes on the Bat2 ... looks better with Taiga than the 3 color would look like on this car ... just curious if they were born that way
- no stripes on the rear wing ... the 3 color stripes were also on the wing, but this car doesn't ... which is correct?
- should the 'plugs' on the rear wing (where the pieces bolt together) ... should they be black or body color?

 

[Keshav]

plastic coolant reservoir or metal reservoir? we know the regular 74 CS / CSi had plastic ... i have heard that it should be metal
(4355042 (unrestored) and PG’s Bats both have brass cans……so I’ll go with that.

- flag vs. trap mirrors?
Primarily Traps, last few cars with optional electric mirrors and Flags

- black screws on the air dam or silver screws?
Silver screws

- has the black fiberglass rear bumper and the black rear valance - very curious if that was correct for a basically city pack car.
City pacs without and Bats with, which car is which is upto the beholder and requires a deeper look.
Important to mark that the differences between city pack and lightweight cars fluctuates quite some. (This car has the Bat kit, hood pins, no power steering, fixed rear glass…all lightweight features but therefore a AC to make up for the weight savings
- seems odd to have 16" Alpina wheels on a Bat
Should be 14”

- a/c ... obviously an option ... very curious if it was factory or installed afterwards
Looks like a factory extra option

- very curious about the black stripes on the Bat2 ... looks better with Taiga than the 3 color would look like on this car ... just curious if they were born that way
black stripes standard and Motorsport stripes optional for the 4355 L’s

- no stripes on the rear wing ... the 3 color stripes were also on the wing, but this car doesn't ... which is correct?
Should have the stripes on the big wing

- should the 'plugs' on the rear wing (where the pieces bolt together) ... should they be black or body color?
Correction….Clear plugs on the 4 bolts affixing the side fins to the central flap.

 

[Lorenzo]

Both my carbs CSL have the rally map light on the dash and the black Momo Alpina steering wheel.
Pretty sure they were sold new with CS badge and without side decals.

 

[Propellerhead_tom]

How about, which fasteners are correct on CSL Petri wheel spokes. I have been under the impression that phillips head screws are standard, but have seen many sporting hex (allen) head screws as fasteners.

My CSL 080 has aluminum doors, fixed rear and manual front windows, glass with heater element rear window, no power steering, no radio, no hood pins.
So, my thought and feeling is that each CSL was delivered with a slightly different group of additions or deletions from factory, possibly dictated by the delivery dealer spec. and or local road regulations. Mine was delivered new in Verona Italy.

 

[Stevehose]

How about, which fasteners are correct on CSL Petri wheel spokes. I have been under the impression that phillips head screws are standard, but have seen many sporting hex (allen) head screws as fasteners.

I've always thought that early ones are Phillips, later ones could be hex or just not correct. Perhaps the experts can chime in.

 

[rsporsche]

this is a really good question - phillips seems correct according to memory ...