NMNA. This dealer always has very expensive Astons and other cars for sale.
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/bmw/3.0csl/1509695.html
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/bmw/3.0csl/1509695.html
csl @ high end dealer in Long island
- Thread starter sirshorty
- Start date
the color is wrong on the passenger door - looks repainted. the doors aren't aligned properly. not sure this one is worth the asking price - unless it was a bat. which it isn't 2275047. interesting that the registry says this car is in monaco.
Monaco car
2275047 is the car that was sold in the RM Monaco sale last May.
http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11597&highlight=auctions
Dealer is a very high end player of Astons and I have dealt with him before, he behaved well on that occasion...... but I am sure he has no knowledge of these.
I suggest anybody interested look at the pictures on his website, they should tell anybody who knows enough about the car.
2275047 is the car that was sold in the RM Monaco sale last May.
http://www.e9coupe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11597&highlight=auctions
Dealer is a very high end player of Astons and I have dealt with him before, he behaved well on that occasion...... but I am sure he has no knowledge of these.
I suggest anybody interested look at the pictures on his website, they should tell anybody who knows enough about the car.
This was described as a number 3 car at the time from what I recall from the auction details at the time. Seems spot on.
What puzzles me is how the dealer thinks he can take a car sold at public auction in a room full of knowledgable buyers, buy it, then hope to flip it for a big profit. The data on most interesting classic cars is out there, and forums like this help provide price/value transparency in the market place. The market has spoken, and the underbidder was probably at about 65k, which is probably what the car is worth.
Scott
What puzzles me is how the dealer thinks he can take a car sold at public auction in a room full of knowledgable buyers, buy it, then hope to flip it for a big profit. The data on most interesting classic cars is out there, and forums like this help provide price/value transparency in the market place. The market has spoken, and the underbidder was probably at about 65k, which is probably what the car is worth.
Scott
2275047
This is one of the great advantages to the internet for everybody who pays attention. But dealers have to live in this internet aware world and therefore they have no choice, certainly if they deal in classic cars, auctions are a sizeable portion of their business.
I don’t mind people trying to make a living, as it has always been buyer beware in this hobby. But, we are now armed with so much more information than we have ever had, we should be able to make good decisions.
If its any help, as I understand it, this dealer did not buy this car in the Monaco auction, a client of his did, got the car home, played with it for a little while and has now put it up for sale. So who is trying to make the margin is anybodies guess.
I would suggest anybody thinking of looking at this, take note of the sound deadening and ask for good pictures at the bottom of the A posts inside the door frame.
The price paid at today’s exchange is roughly $72k, by the time it is got home, who knows..........
This is one of the great advantages to the internet for everybody who pays attention. But dealers have to live in this internet aware world and therefore they have no choice, certainly if they deal in classic cars, auctions are a sizeable portion of their business.
I don’t mind people trying to make a living, as it has always been buyer beware in this hobby. But, we are now armed with so much more information than we have ever had, we should be able to make good decisions.
If its any help, as I understand it, this dealer did not buy this car in the Monaco auction, a client of his did, got the car home, played with it for a little while and has now put it up for sale. So who is trying to make the margin is anybodies guess.
I would suggest anybody thinking of looking at this, take note of the sound deadening and ask for good pictures at the bottom of the A posts inside the door frame.
The price paid at today’s exchange is roughly $72k, by the time it is got home, who knows..........
Generally doesn't cost more than $3k + 2% duty to bring a car home from Europe.
Generally doesn't cost more than $3.5k + 2% duty to bring a car home from Europe. That's $1000 Euro shipping, $2k container-type sea transport, $500 local transport from Port Newark.Add $1500 for duty, and the car cost the buyer less than $80k.
Don't forget the asking price is just that, a question. The market can answer with a yes, or -20%. I've pseronally seen 4 CSL's for sale in the last year that did not sell due to pricing-market misalignment. Look at how long 50k GBP RHD CSL's are sitting on dealer sites in the UK.
Generally doesn't cost more than $3.5k + 2% duty to bring a car home from Europe. That's $1000 Euro shipping, $2k container-type sea transport, $500 local transport from Port Newark.Add $1500 for duty, and the car cost the buyer less than $80k.
Don't forget the asking price is just that, a question. The market can answer with a yes, or -20%. I've pseronally seen 4 CSL's for sale in the last year that did not sell due to pricing-market misalignment. Look at how long 50k GBP RHD CSL's are sitting on dealer sites in the UK.
2275047
As you say John......asking price is asking price.
RHDs tend to stick around a little longer, it seems that there is still a fairly healthy stock of them on the market, that said the right car at the right price will sell........green car end of last year, sold in a day or two.
I would never condone anybody buying an inferior CSL, but I am starting to see the same signs we saw in the M1 market. The best cars were between $120k and $150k forever in fact lower than that for a very long time, but often double what a good CSL was. Then suddenly "bang" in 2012, the three that had been sitting in Motorcar Gallery (Florida) for many years all suddenly sold within a couple of months. One sold in auction last year, that was an ok car at $242k, I have now heard of a couple making over $300k and I know owners with very good cars are not even willing to sell at these levels.
Of course, M1s are much more limited (only 399 street cars), only mid engine BMW, etc, etc. But there is definitely a seed change in the market for an excellent CSL, problem is many on the market are not excellent or even priced reflective of the cars condition.
I would add that a very high percentage of the M1s are still around, I doubt that is the case with CSLs, especially what is called Ultra lightweights.
As you say John......asking price is asking price.
RHDs tend to stick around a little longer, it seems that there is still a fairly healthy stock of them on the market, that said the right car at the right price will sell........green car end of last year, sold in a day or two.
I would never condone anybody buying an inferior CSL, but I am starting to see the same signs we saw in the M1 market. The best cars were between $120k and $150k forever in fact lower than that for a very long time, but often double what a good CSL was. Then suddenly "bang" in 2012, the three that had been sitting in Motorcar Gallery (Florida) for many years all suddenly sold within a couple of months. One sold in auction last year, that was an ok car at $242k, I have now heard of a couple making over $300k and I know owners with very good cars are not even willing to sell at these levels.
Of course, M1s are much more limited (only 399 street cars), only mid engine BMW, etc, etc. But there is definitely a seed change in the market for an excellent CSL, problem is many on the market are not excellent or even priced reflective of the cars condition.
I would add that a very high percentage of the M1s are still around, I doubt that is the case with CSLs, especially what is called Ultra lightweights.
A lot of the rhd csl market is rough. A restoration here will cost you 1000 hrs * £50 at least and then add parts! So a good car would costs £10k to buy the project + £10k parts = £70k. I would expect that car to sell fast for £50k. The thing is there are very few of these cars in the UK and those that own them are unlikely to sell them.
Looks like car sold at Amelia Island for 63k, and rust was disclosed.
Last sold in Monaco for 68k.
Dealer tried to sell the car on consignment for 99k.
The market has spoken.
http://www.goodingco.com/car/1973-bmw-30-csl
Last sold in Monaco for 68k.
Dealer tried to sell the car on consignment for 99k.
The market has spoken.
http://www.goodingco.com/car/1973-bmw-30-csl
Csl
Hello all
I was there and David Gooding did mentioned on the rostrum that this car had rust issues, like a breath of fresh air in the auction world.
It also does show something else on CSL prices, even a bad CSL with announced rust issues - and this car was a serious case, can command prices in the $60s.
Like others below i have to concur that good CSLs are now very hard to find and prices are creeping up accordingly.
On another note, the prizes given to best in class winners at Amelia was a Bronze group 5 CSL, how about that for recognition of E9s?
Pete
Hello all
I was there and David Gooding did mentioned on the rostrum that this car had rust issues, like a breath of fresh air in the auction world.
It also does show something else on CSL prices, even a bad CSL with announced rust issues - and this car was a serious case, can command prices in the $60s.
Like others below i have to concur that good CSLs are now very hard to find and prices are creeping up accordingly.
On another note, the prizes given to best in class winners at Amelia was a Bronze group 5 CSL, how about that for recognition of E9s?
Pete
What exactly are the rust issues?
Steve, good question. Perhaps Pete got a close look. Unless a CSL has been completely apart, I would take rust as a given. A "known unknown," to quote our former secretary of defense.
The prices at this auction were insane, again. Alfa Giulietta Spider for 140K! A MB 190SL for 198K! Ferrari 330GT 2+2 for 242K (near the record of 250K set in January). I have been following the 330s for a while, hoping to get into one one day. The Series 2 cars were 100-125k two years ago. Ugh. Too many people with too much money.
So, if the CSL sold for 63k, it has to be taken into account that this was in the heated auction environment, on a day when records were set.
The prices at this auction were insane, again. Alfa Giulietta Spider for 140K! A MB 190SL for 198K! Ferrari 330GT 2+2 for 242K (near the record of 250K set in January). I have been following the 330s for a while, hoping to get into one one day. The Series 2 cars were 100-125k two years ago. Ugh. Too many people with too much money.
So, if the CSL sold for 63k, it has to be taken into account that this was in the heated auction environment, on a day when records were set.
Oh, and I left out the 1973 trans am for 165K!
http://www.goodingco.com/all_auctions/results/amelia_island_13
http://www.goodingco.com/all_auctions/results/amelia_island_13
Csl
Gents,
Well, there is always a chance some kind soul on this forum has bought the car and if they have I wish them well, as this means they at least have a CSL and can do with it as they wish.
I will say it exactly as I saw it without any malice intended.
Bottom of the A posts/door frame were a mess of filler, you could see the finger marks where the filler was pushed in and then painted over, door skins were separating, seats were good, body in general even with the recent coat of paint looked like you would be very scared of what might be underneath. What I saw made me decide to not look any further, I had seen enough, as had a few knowledgeable E9 people I met at the event.
For what its worth on price. Goodings is always a great sale for great cars, in fact they hold the record for highest prices achieved on the most cars, but that is only achieved with the absolute best. Buyers attend goodings sales for the very best and less than good cars can struggle, this was not normal “goodings” fodder.
I did not look closely at any of the other cars mentioned, so I cannot comment and previous comments by Craterface may be entirely valid. I did look extremely closely at the Trans-am though and that car was exceptional, right year 1973, right spec, super duty, manual etc, absolutely perfect condition, fantastic history/provenance etc, etc.
So was $165k correct, who knows? But the very best are never inexpensive.
I also looked at the Ferrari Daytona and that car was again exceptional in most areas, had incorrect stitching on seats, color combination was odd, but price was very fair for a very,very good car. When nice M1s ( which I love) are entering the $300ks a very nice Daytona at not much more does not look expensive.
Just my thoughts.
Pete
Gents,
Well, there is always a chance some kind soul on this forum has bought the car and if they have I wish them well, as this means they at least have a CSL and can do with it as they wish.
I will say it exactly as I saw it without any malice intended.
Bottom of the A posts/door frame were a mess of filler, you could see the finger marks where the filler was pushed in and then painted over, door skins were separating, seats were good, body in general even with the recent coat of paint looked like you would be very scared of what might be underneath. What I saw made me decide to not look any further, I had seen enough, as had a few knowledgeable E9 people I met at the event.
For what its worth on price. Goodings is always a great sale for great cars, in fact they hold the record for highest prices achieved on the most cars, but that is only achieved with the absolute best. Buyers attend goodings sales for the very best and less than good cars can struggle, this was not normal “goodings” fodder.
I did not look closely at any of the other cars mentioned, so I cannot comment and previous comments by Craterface may be entirely valid. I did look extremely closely at the Trans-am though and that car was exceptional, right year 1973, right spec, super duty, manual etc, absolutely perfect condition, fantastic history/provenance etc, etc.
So was $165k correct, who knows? But the very best are never inexpensive.
I also looked at the Ferrari Daytona and that car was again exceptional in most areas, had incorrect stitching on seats, color combination was odd, but price was very fair for a very,very good car. When nice M1s ( which I love) are entering the $300ks a very nice Daytona at not much more does not look expensive.
Just my thoughts.
Pete
Monaco buyer did poorly
On this if you consider the fees& costs to import. When Don Rose looked at the car for me hie said, "respectable enough to drive for a while then do a rest sometime down the road."
I suspect the buyer was either overly exuberant (I too have bid more than planned in the heat of an auction), or perhaps it was a remote buyer who felt the rust was less serious than reality.
In think one of our board's more well known members knows of a similarly rust CSL available for the 40's, which i believe to be a more where the market is.
On this if you consider the fees& costs to import. When Don Rose looked at the car for me hie said, "respectable enough to drive for a while then do a rest sometime down the road."
I suspect the buyer was either overly exuberant (I too have bid more than planned in the heat of an auction), or perhaps it was a remote buyer who felt the rust was less serious than reality.
In think one of our board's more well known members knows of a similarly rust CSL available for the 40's, which i believe to be a more where the market is.