Door window felt

[jhjacobs]

I'm getting ready to change the window felts on the doors. I have about two yards of felt channel material and I'm ready to dig in. What types of snakes will I encounter in this job? I am hoping I can do this with the window still in the car (rolled down) but I suppose I can remove it if needed. :shock:

 

[bert35csi]

JJ, is the piece pictured below the part in question? This is the oem felt piece that needs to be clipped from underneath the door chrome/wood trim piece. This door trim assembly must be removed in order to remove and install the new felt part. It is a pain to pry out the old felt as it's clamped on ridiculously tight to the door trim assembly. Use a flat screwdriver and start prying from one end. Experiment with various prying angles for best results. There are real sharp metal edges on both ends that could possibly scrape your window glass. Use a dremmel tool to deburred these sharp metal edges. I tried using a metal file but the steel is so hard that I barely made a dent in the felt piece. The last time I changed one of these was many years ago, so some details may've escaped me.

Bert
72 3.5 CSi
88 M6

Part number is 51-21-1-816-761-it is not left or right specific

 

[PaulinPa]

I just finished doing this job but my window frames were out.They are held in mostly by friction.There are 5 or so metal clips on the back of the channel and maybe some dried out glue.You have to just yank the channel out with pliers,yes you will destroy it,along with some prying with a screwdriver.Pull the clips off the old piece and press them on the new cut to length one,dab some weatherstrip glue on the back of the channel and press it back in the frame.No hidden screws or anything.Back one can definitely be done with window down but I'm not sure how you'd do front one with window down as it's still in the channel.Good luck.

 

[jhjacobs]

Thanks - this is exactly what I getting ready to attempt. The rear appears to be reasonable. The front does have me worried since I see that the felt channel runs down several inches below the door frame. Fortunately my doors panels are still off so I have access.

I was going to ask about cutting this stuff, it seems like it has the potential to induce four-letter word shouting. I think I'll try using my RotoZIP tool - basically an overgrown Dremel - >10,000 rpm with a metal cutting blade.

While I'm at it, I plan to make new door panel boards. Mine are not too bad but they are sort of wavy-gravy and corners are a bit tattered. I was thinking about using standard Masonite but I now think it is too thick. My current thinking is to use white-board panelling which is basically thin Masonite with white plastic coat on one face. Another other recommendations for commonly available material?

 

[PaulinPa]

Channel cuts with a good set of shears.Metal is only along bottom edge.It's been said before that masonite transmitts "noise". Restoration Specialities in Windber,Pa (814)467-9842 [email protected] has black waterproof cardboard door panel material 32"x48" for $12.But shipping is $40!You might try a local upholstery shop and at least save shipping cost.

 

[jhjacobs]

My RotoZip cut the felt and metal stiffening rods like butter. I wrapped the channel with masking tape to keep fuzz from flying. The front door channels are now done and maybe tonight will see the rear channels complete. The dealer sold material for the front windows only; however it came is a coil of about 4-5 feet. I did a rough measurement and I think it is enough for the rear too; with my luck I'll be short by 2" and I'll have to go back for another 5 feet

Installing the channels was a bit of a chore; they don't really want to slide down the several inches into the door that is required. I had to loosen the two channel guide bolts near the door lock and move them about about 0.2" to get the glass back from the channel. I then sprayed the channel and felt with foam glass cleaner (left over from windshield install). I was able to push them in only about 1 inch. I then rolled up the window a few inches, grabbed the channel material and glass securely and then rolled the window back down - this pulled the felt in perfectly. I was then able to gently pull the felt back up the precise amount to line up with the top of the channel and snap it into position.

After getting the new channel felt back in, the window did not want to go all the way to the top. I spayed the inside fo the channel with more glass foam and use box end wrench head and some force to "clear and seat" the channel. I pull it up and down the channel while pressing in; I also wobble left and right to open up the channel. After this is was fine but I was still not able to pull the rear guide back the 0.2"; I was only about to come back about 0.1." I think the new felt is thicker and doesn't seat as deeply what was in the car when I started

I'll check with resto-specialties. I think I need to get the entire catalog. I think they may quite a few suitable rubber trim items that can be adapted too.

 

[pmansson]

So what is the conclusion here: is it worth chaning the U-shaped felt liners or not. On 2 of my cars, they are a bit worn and I have contemplated changing them. I already have them in stock. What is the end result? Quiter inside with all windows closed? Prettier from the outside? Anything else?
I found that changing the felt liners and covering rubber on the bottom of the door windows was very rewarding and not too difficult, although pulling the rubber into its seat was a bit of a challenge. I used vaseline from the local tyre shop rather than soapy water. Grabbed the end of the rubber with a pair of pliers and pulled, shifting plier location from end to middle, to third way back and forth. It is important not to cut the rubber ends too soon, as the rubber shrinks by itself after having been stretched with the pliers. I left the chrome liners with new felt and rubber for a week or so, pulling towards the middle etc, before finally cutting off the ends to meet with the chrome ends. Rain or washing water wil no longer enter the doors from above!!!

 

[jhjacobs]

I got mine felt channels replace front and rear. I can't say it makes the car quiter but mine were 37 year old originals and dry rotting. I had strings and fuzz everywhere. Now it looks nice. I bought about 2meters of the stuff at my local dealer.

The front's were hard to do. I recomend a power tool with a metal blade to cut them; I used a RotoZip (Dremel on Steroids). Getting the old felt out is simple, I pried from the top to get it started and it simply popped out with a bit of coaxing. Some metal clips pulled out with the channel and others stayed in and had to be popped out. The hard part was pushing the new felt down the channel (below top of door) with the glass in place. This took some lubricants, cursing, and eventually loosening the window channel. The new felt is tight. After pushing, spreading, and using daily for a few days they are getting better.

The rears are simple. With the window down You can use a small screw driver and pop it out starting at the top. The new one, with metal clips will pop right in (starting at the top and working down). Again, these were very tight too but I have loosened them up with the head of a box end wrench and the class cleaner as lube.

While I was in there I pulled out my rear window assemblies to clean and lubricate. I also planned to deal with my lame window motors. After reading this forum I was sort of lead to believe that I should go out and upgrade the motors but I at least wanted to try repair. Well, all I can say is the E9 window motors are more than adequate when the mechanisms are clean and lubed and the motors are given a bit of attention. I did open my motors (4 little tabs holding cover plate) and I took some 200 grit sand paper and buffed the armature until the copper was shiny. I also took some small double folded strips and placed in under each brush and pulled it out to buff the. I finished off by cleaning with disk brake cleaner and then applying some sewing machine oil on the top and bottom bushings. I can honestly say that my E9 windows are now faster than my E39 windows.

I will point out that while testing the motors I used a 4 amp battery charger; it was not able to pull the load! So, the person who suggested using auxiliary relays is probably doing the right thing. I think I'll do this too before completely buttoning up the door panels. If I do I'll post wiring diagrams and photos.

 

[bert35csi]

Sorry guys, the window felt pic and the the accompanying instructions in my earlier posting were for the exterior door chrome trim piece. I kept on seeing the phrases 'meters of' and 'roll of' materials and it got me curious, so I double checked the two felt parts and sure enough, it was the exterior door piece that I was writing about and referring to. Anyone who has tackle the changing of the exterior felt piece knows what a major PITA job it is. The inside felt piece is attached to a flat piece of metal and is held in place to the door trim with clips. The outside felt piece is a U shaped factory pre-cut part and is tightly clipped into place to the chrome trim with it's self clipping structure. This piece also incorporates the rubber window squeegee.

 

[jmackro]

jhjacobs had written: "I will point out that while testing the motors I used a 4 amp battery charger; it was not able to pull the load! So, the person who suggested using auxiliary relays is probably doing the right thing. I think I'll do this too before completely buttoning up the door panels."

I think I was that person. All I did was to mount two SPST relays in the doors. Both receive +12V directly from the battery (with a circuit breaker mounted near the battery - no, it doesn't look stock). The window motors have three wires - one is ground, the second makes the windows go up when +12V is applied, and the third makes them go down when +12V is applied. These two non-ground wires each go to one the relays. Then the wires from the switches that used to power the motors are connected to actuate the relay coils.

No wiring changes need to be made in the console.

Two other bits: 1) I added a diode across the relay contacts to minimize arcing when the switches are released. 2) The factory ground for the motor seemed a bit mickeymouse. I ran a dedicated ground wire through the bundle that provides power & signal across the doorjamb, and grounded it to the body - that way, ground current doesn't have to run through the door hinges & latches.

It would be nice if I had taken photos, and knew how to post them, plus a schematic. But, really it was pretty simple. The hardest part was routing the wire from the battery, across the underside of the dash, to the passenger door.

 

[jhjacobs]

I'm working the rear motors but the relay principle is the same except for the return ground. I figured on using a pair of standard box relays per side in the configuration you suggest. The diode is a nice touch; a may do this right at the black junction near each more (two diode on each side, anodes to ground).

 

[jhjacobs]

My rear window motors have now been re-wired with relays. Jmackro, I like your idea, it works great, but I think I must request that you and everyone else refrain from posting such good ideas because I can't resist them and I waste lots of time doing this stuff. :roll:

Adding direct power relays made a huge difference with my already well performing windows (reconditioned motors / cleaned & lubed tracks). They now take about 3-4 seconds to open or close! I think I could now easily and quickly dispatch Marie Antoinette's head with my rear windows! :twisted:

I also added the diodes but not across the contacts. I put them between the motor power feeds and ground to prevent the large negative voltage spike when the switch is released. I actually don't they are really too helpful and the high current (30A) relays should be able to handle the load. My schematic and some installation photos (pre / post) follow:

Before installation:

The relay configuration ($4 relays from local part store mounted on 3.5" angle brackets from the hardware store):

I added a fused power feed directly from the battery with 14awg wire:

Final installation - bolts directly into lower mount with longer bolt; this is also my ground point:

 

[jhjacobs]

My previous post on window motor wiring requires an update. The 20amp fuse is not sufficient when operating both windows. I replaced the fuse with a 30amp in-line circuit breaker and I have not had any problems since.