E9 newbie

[LagunaE34M5]

Hi all,

I own a 91 M5. It's my first BMW, and I think my next one might very well be an E9. (I'll be keeping the M5, but I'd rather have a classic BMW than a newer one. cheaper and it won't depreciate as fast...maybe not at all.)

Can someone point me to some good links for E9 background? I'm interested in the differences in models, production volumes, carb and tranny options, mods/upgrades, etc. Thanks!

Also, I just read in Bimmer that a 72 3.0 CS sold at one of the Monterey auctions in August for $23k. It was restored silver/blue and only had 3k original miles. Estimated price was $30k, but Bimmer said this was market-correct. Then in last month's R&T there was a 72 3.0 CS silver-blue/tan with 121k miles that looked sharp for $17k. It's not in this months issue, so perhaps it has been sold. These prices seem lower than what I've seen in the classifieds on this site, but I know how enthusiasts tend to price their cars.... what do you folks think?

Eric Lee

 

[Malc]

Eric,
Welcome to this forum!

There are several sites that deal better or worse with the E9 but here are some basic pointers when looking at the e9

1... Rust!
2... Carb models usually used zenith carbs, often swapped for Webers
3... Injected Models - old Bosch system works ok but some parts getting tricky to find
4... CSL model - lots of fakes out there, command higher prices
5... Automatics usually lower prices
6... Modifications, if done right do not seem to effect prices, common to change engines and gearboxes from later cars (6 series, 5 series, e28 etc)
7... Mechanically simple easy to work on
8... Bodywork can be a nightmare, watch out for bodges, filler etc
9... Spend as much money as you can for the "right" car unless you want a project.
10.. Production numbers etc are available - search this site.
11.. If you find a car you like see if anybody on this site lives near you so they can look at it with you
12.. Don't worry about astronomical mileages
13.. Simple electrics, but some circuits not well protected, look for hacked/chopped wiring
14.. Always check operation of electric windows, very late cars sometimes had fixed rear ones.
15.. Handling, well its at least 30 years old, but check suspension bushes etc
16.. Smoky engines suggest worn valve guides rings etc
17.. Check rubber seals etc especially on cars from sunny climes
18.. Wood can be restored, dash tops can crack not longer available (?), instruments can be repaired sourced second hand

and finally

Check Vin number on firewall on lHS looking from the front, should match VIN plate. If the original engine is in place the number should match the Vin number
Others I am sure can add to this list!!

Hope this helps
Malc

 

[kealaiki]

I've owned M-cars, too. You shouldn't have the impression E9s are less costly to keep. They're fun to drive, beautiful to look at, and for the most part, are very reliable (when compared to other 30+ year old cars). However, unlike BMWs made in the 80's, these rolling pieces of art seem to have a host of minor things that go wrong with them, i.e., electrical accessories, lights, wipers, etc. I get the impression from this board that most of us are fairly obsessive-compulsive about our coupes. These minor failures can make you crazy and sometimes cost significant money to correct them.

I also prefer the older cars. This may sound weird, but with new BMWs "all it takes is money" to afford the initial investment, or the monthly payments. With the older cars, it takes passion, and commitment and money!

 

[gpetrus]

e9s rust from the inside out. If you see rust bubbles, it is usually a sign of much greater rust that can't be seen until you weld off the fenders(quarter panels)

Beware of some previously restored cars. Many restorations were done by just putting on new outer sheet metal and not repairing the entire problem. Typically a heavy dose of POR15 was used as a temporary mask of inner rust. Which in turn makes your life much more difficult.

Buy the best bodywork example you can find, in the end the price will be the same as a cheaper e9 that needs 'some work'.

Best of luck.

 

[LagunaE34M5]

Thanks for the info. A few more questions:

1. how big of a difference is there between the production years of the US 3.0cs? What I mean is, does the market place a higher value on the earlier cars due to aesthetic and mechanical "improvements" over the US run of the 3.0cs? Can the later cars be tuned to have the same performance as the earlier cars?

2. Have many 3.0csi cars been imported to the US? I assume their preferred, and priced accordingly.

3. Can the carbed engines be made to perform as well as the FI engines?

4. How hard is it to import a Euro 3.0csi today into California? SMOG shouldn't be required, right?

4. I'm looking for a 3.0cs or 3.0csi, with no rust, preferrably in California to make it easy to register and more likely to be rust free. The car needn't be perfect - I enjoy tinkering with interior bits and fairly serious mechanical work. Low mileage and rarity are not a huge priority, more I'd prefer something that's ready to be enjoyed and driven now. Color preferences are silver and blue. repaint is not a problem, I'd prefer it to look good than be original. (but I don't intend to modify the car except maybe Alpina wheels) What do you think this car would cost, and how easily could this car be found?

Thank you all very much!

Eric Lee
91 M5
Monterey, CA

 

[Malc]

A few more questions:

1. how big of a difference is there between the production years of the US 3.0cs? What I mean is, does the market place a higher value on the earlier cars due to aesthetic and mechanical "improvements" over the US run of the 3.0cs?

Not really as there is very little difference between early and late cars, as far as I am aware the only big difference is the advent of impact bumpers on later cars

Can the later cars be tuned to have the same performance as the earlier cars?

Yes although there is very little difference in performance, for the same model, across the years

2. Have many 3.0csi cars been imported to the US? I assume their preferred, and priced accordingly.

Not sure about this one, as far as numbers are concerned a Csi is a little more powerful 200BHp in UK spec. Caveats include hard to find or no longer available fuel injection parts.
Unless you look under the bonnet or at the script on the boot lid it's hard to tell any model of E9!

3. Can the carbed engines be made to perform as well as the FI engines?

Yes - all it takes is time and money, Triple Webers is one route to go

4. How hard is it to import a Euro 3.0csi today into California? SMOG shouldn't be required, right?

I believe you need to check the requirments for the model year However that said If a car is over 25 years old it can be imported into the US as Historic (So I was told in Texas)

4. I'm looking for a 3.0cs or 3.0csi, with no rust, preferrably in California to make it easy to register and more likely to be rust free. The car needn't be perfect - I enjoy tinkering with interior bits and fairly serious mechanical work. Low mileage and rarity are not a huge priority, more I'd prefer something that's ready to be enjoyed and driven now. Color preferences are silver and blue. repaint is not a problem, I'd prefer it to look good than be original. (but I don't intend to modify the car except maybe Alpina wheels) What do you think this car would cost, and how easily could this car be found?

Be prepared to spend as much money as possible for a car, Its all about condition!! note replies and other posts on the subject
Check your local paper, Ebay, magazines, specialist shops, they often don't know what they have etc
prices - difficult to say in your part of the world but a rough guide for UK prices: (£1.00 ~ $1.90)
CS and CSI : £6500 cond 1, £4000 cond 2, £1000 basket case, multiply above by 2.5 for CSL prices

Malc

 

[fc_celtic_fan]

I sold my 2000 M5 and purchased a 73 CS. While I miss the raw power of the M5, taking the CS on a nice twisty road is much more enjoyable.

 

[pj]

Eric
there are a few people on this board local to you with e9's ,I am sure they would not mind sharing their knowledge/experiance/madness with you.
I am in Santa Cruz,if you want to check my ride out (its not for sale) you are more than welcome. I would recommend you drive in as many as possible to get the feel of what you want to end up with Stock vs Modified,carbs vs fi etc.

HTH
PJ
73 csi

 

[gkb]

e9s in Europe - Malc's observations

Except that there aren't many in the UK and they are RHD - to only pay $8K for a condition 1 vehicle and corresponding less for other seems a bargain.

Eric - I am a long time e24 owner and just bought an e9 in August. IMHO the e24 is more of a grand tourer (even the M6) and the e9 is actually much more of a driver's car. Actually my e9 (admittedly lowered, alpina suspension, alpina struts, triple Webers, dogleg close ratio 5 spd) is more fun to drive (maybe not quite as fast) and handles better than my e24 M6 (mostly stock). No regrets at all except that in the Northeast it can't be my daily driver.

Just keep in mind - most e9s look great in pictures and at 20 feet. Perhaps more than any other car, this is one car I would NEVER buy without close inspection (unless you like surprises).

Happy holidays.

 

[Eric L.]

Thanks for the info. A few more questions:

2. Have many 3.0csi cars been imported to the US? I assume their preferred, and priced accordingly.

I don't believe any CSIs were officially imported into the US - only CSs. All CSIs were brought over piecemeal and they are somewhat rare.

4. How hard is it to import a Euro 3.0csi today into California? SMOG shouldn't be required, right?

Be wary of importing a CS from Europe 30+ years after manufacture. Rust will likely be a problem. Stick to the southwestern U.S.

4. I'm looking for a 3.0cs or 3.0csi, with no rust, preferrably in California to make it easy to register and more likely to be rust free. The car needn't be perfect - I enjoy tinkering with interior bits and fairly serious mechanical work. * * * What do you think this car would cost, and how easily could this car be found?

I understand that a CS with absolutely no rust may not exist and is, at least, hard to come by. They all seem to have some rust, somewhere. Most recommend buying a car with the best body you can find. I think that is great advice.

A complete interior that is in good shape is also a plus. The interior bits can be costly, but the wood and dash can be restored fairly reasonably (it's just a lot of work to remove and replace them, but, on the positive side, it's a rite of passage for all coupe owners).

The mechanicals are relatively cheap and plentiful, so they are a relatively low priority.

Good luck, they're lovely cars.

 

[Dave L]

e9's are (relatively speaking) plentiful here in SoCal.

That is definitely a relative statement, but true relative to other parts of this country. Once you own one you will begin to really notice just how many are out there. sometimes it feels like I see them all the time. So, if you want one, and are willing to pay the going rate, you can probably find a decent car without a whole lot of trouble. About a month ago there was an effort to get a good showing for the BMW marque at the Saturday morning gathering at the Ford PAG site at the Irvine Spectrum (formerly the Crystal Cove gathering). If you have never attended this weekly gathering, just watch this board for notes on when other local coupe owners are going to show up, the go that morning. You will probably have a few cars of different versions to look at and some real great knowledge to speak to. Trust me when I say, the "community" knows where the cars (and the parts) are and can be a valuable resource in your search, and if you dont know everyone when your buying the car, you will really get to know people when you need the parts.

Dave L
Laguna Niguel